Collision: how is / should this scenario be scored?

[Wiley]

Actually, that's a valid point, Maus.  I hadn't looked at it being the same as gunnery.  My response is pretty much that it feels worse.  In most scenarios, you can see the enemy plane coming, and maneuver to avoid it in some fashion.  I realize this doesn't happen in all cases, such as buffs getting rammed, but if someone's not sniping you from ridiculous distance, it's practically impossible to see a tracer exit the enemy plane and maneuver to avoid it.  I'd say that is the difference.  In most collision situations, you could do something to avoid it.  In most gunnery lag 'wtf just happened?' type situations you couldn't.

I do see that it's a valid point, I just think the right call has been made to minimize the downside.  I think the other guy not dying when you die because you observed a collision is significantly less enraging than you dying just because the other guy observed a collision and you were nowhere near him.

Wiley.

[AWwrgwy]

From the Jug scenario used earlier:

The overtaking Pony FE's detects a collision and dies, yet the Jug flies on because it never collided from its perspective...

Consider this: what is the difference when a shooter's FE detects hits on the target, and damages/kills it- even if from the target pilot's perspective, the shot was impossible (assuming that lag caused the difference in perspective?)

Isn't that the exact same thing? 

You are getting hit at what seems to be an impossible angle on your FE, say a front ¼ shot or taking hits after the enemy has passed you or even blowing up long after the enemy is out of his guns solution, and yet on his FE you're sitting right in front of his guns fat, dumb, and happy.

Think of the extreme example of the majorly warpy pilot that actually manages to land some hits on you.

It's all perspective and I suspect that most of those who "don't get it" are only looking at the situation based on what they are seeing and fail to grasp that the other player may be seeing things slightly differently.

Look at it from the other side.


wrongway

[hitech]

Actually, that's a valid point, Maus.  I hadn't looked at it being the same as gunnery.  My response is pretty much that it feels worse.  In most scenarios, you can see the enemy plane coming, and maneuver to avoid it in some fashion.  I realize this doesn't happen in all cases, such as buffs getting rammed, but if someone's not sniping you from ridiculous distance, it's practically impossible to see a tracer exit the enemy plane and maneuver to avoid it.  I'd say that is the difference.  In most collision situations, you could do something to avoid it.  In most gunnery lag 'wtf just happened?' type situations you couldn't.

I do see that it's a valid point, I just think the right call has been made to minimize the downside.  I think the other guy not dying when you die because you observed a collision is significantly less enraging than you dying just because the other guy observed a collision and you were nowhere near him.

Wiley.

Wiley it would be better said it is a correct fact, not a valid point.

There is no valid reason why they should be handled the same. The issue isn't one of consistency. The issue is how to solve the many different problems created by the limits of the communication medium. Assuming that all should be handled the same is nothing but a straw man.

The real topic is why are there collisions of any kind, The reason they are in the game is to prevent people from holding down the trigger and flying threw the other plane, both from behind and from H2H. Having the 2nd person die actually works against the very purpose of putting collisions in the game.

HiTech

HiTech

[Wiley]

Assuming that all should be handled the same is nothing but a straw man.

Makes sense to me.  I tend to think in terms of keeping things consistent by default, it's not always the best course of action like this case.

The real topic is why are there collisions of any kind, The reason they are in the game is to prevent people from holding down the trigger and flying threw the other plane, both from behind and from H2H. Having the 2nd person die actually works against the very purpose of putting collisions in the game.

HiTech

And there we go.  Makes sense to me.  I was just pointing out I could see a valid logical point to asking why is gunnery working one way and collision another.  But you're right, it's a point of fact, and they're accomplishing different things, hence why they work differently.

Wiley.

[DeltaFox]

Old salts, too!

I just wanted to point out that the glitch in the BBS search is not just with basic search - the advanced search is not working properly either. I think we should lighten up on deriding people for not searching, particularly new people.

[DeltaFox]

I'm in a B-24, out of gas, two bases back, in Auto-Level and the Mossie I saw coming is attacking me.  I managed to smoke one of his engines.  He comes back and rams one of my planes.  He dies and now I have two bombers.  All is good!  Rare that happens, when both die in a collision.  Should have taken more gas, landed farther back.

If there's a collision on your screen, you take damage. If there's a collision on your enemies screen, he takes damage. Game doesn't care whos "fault" it was. What you see is what YOU get, and that works this way for everyone involved.

Read THIS first: http://trainers.hitechcreations.com/lag/lag.htm
Then do a forum search for "collisions", and learn why the things are the way they are.

[AWwrgwy]

I'm in a B-24, out of gas, two bases back, in Auto-Level and the Mossie I saw coming is attacking me.  I managed to smoke one of his engines.  He comes back and rams one of my planes.  He dies and now I have two bombers.  All is good!  Rare that happens, when both die in a collision.  Should have taken more gas, landed farther back.

Rare that both he and you collided, at the same time, and took damage or lost aircraft?  No.  Not really.

 


wrongway

[DeltaFox]

That is what happened.  Really.  Run the video tape.

Rare that both he and you collided, at the same time, and took damage or lost aircraft?  No.  Not really.

 


wrongway

[BulletVI]

We could have it scored as like a damage score i.e

Kills 23
Damaged 54
Assists 65
Bail's 32

I mean if a collision happens then if one gets to fly away with no problem's then if he hasn't had a single cannon round hit you why should there be a kill awarded ( although an extra kill here and there wont go amiss to anyone ) But i believe the thing that gets on people's nerves is the fact that he got a kill from it without firing his gun's and as i say if he did get some hits on you then its a kill. But only if he gets hits on you. If he doesn't and it happens allot in the dueling arena the initial first pass if neither player fire's but they collide and one goes down and the other doesn't  then he can only get a damage awarded like :-  HOST You Damaged Soon SO

Now i believe that this may be a good compromise to the original post

( Remember in WW2 pilots where recorded on Kills, Damaged, Assists and Bails

[hitech]

We could have it scored as like a damage score i.e

Kills 23
Damaged 54
Assists 65
Bail's 32

I mean if a collision happens then if one gets to fly away with no problem's then if he hasn't had a single cannon round hit you why should there be a kill awarded ( although an extra kill here and there wont go amiss to anyone ) But i believe the thing that gets on people's nerves is the fact that he got a kill from it without firing his gun's and as i say if he did get some hits on you then its a kill. But only if he gets hits on you. If he doesn't and it happens allot in the dueling arena the initial first pass if neither player fire's but they collide and one goes down and the other doesn't  then he can only get a damage awarded like :-  HOST You Damaged Soon SO

Now i believe that this may be a good compromise to the original post

( Remember in WW2 pilots where recorded on Kills, Damaged, Assists and Bails

Nope is a terrible choice. It's not a compromise in any way it is a change to an existing system that does nothing to improve game play in anyway. It would simply be an appeasement to those stupid enough to collide with another plane. And why would we wish to appease them? When they are the ones who screwed up? Why should the guy who missed the other plane now be forced to go find another fight?

HiTech

[NCLawman]

if two objects hit there is a collision ergo you collide, but you say nothing to improve your point except insults. as for how long have I been playing, lets just say LONGER THAN YOU, so that would make you the fledgling.
Now back to the point.
1 this is a game
2 the internet has one thing I have only seen addressed once or twice LAG so different points of view will show different things
3 I'm tired of hearing ones like you who complain when anything happens to you ( no matter how good you might be there will always be someone better)that's why the simple solution is the better.
if you  cant say anything that is not advise and want to try to insult someone DONT POST
and take an English course if you going to use insults at least spell it correctly

You apparently have not been following the thread and have decided to interject yourself like a child into a topic you obviously do not understand.  You said, "If two objects hit, there is a collision ergo you collide."   The whole point of this thread (or at least the explanations of it) is that in AH just because YOU impact an object, does NOT MEAN THAT SAME OBJECT IMPACTED YOU.  Rather than go back and get into a lengthy explanation, I would refer you to Lusches pictures and the previous post regard the "multiple realities" in AH.

As for complaining.... please show me anywhere in this thread where I have complained about anything (excluding your stupid remark).

And finally, regarding my English.  I do speak English very well.  If I had a typo, I beg your ultimate forgiveness.  My secretary was under my desk rather than working at it.  I may have missed a letter.

When you have educated yourself on the topic, please feel free to come back and post again.

[Dichotomy]

Wait wait......  AH is a multiverse?    Do you mean that when I log in I'm dealing with reality as myth? 

That is so COOOL... It's like being in a Heinlein novel.  I'm here but over there I'm not here.  You're right here but over there you're not right here.  Can we can that whole rejuvenating thing too?   Living forever and always being able to shave 50 or so years off my age has some appeal....

*runs out hands covering head*

[BulletVI]

Yeah NCLawman tell him i have learned something new here thanks to you and HiTech and a few other's And that's with a bad memory Isn't it


OK OK OK was just a thought like

Well how about if i say hit the engine of a 109 and have to break off becuase his buddy is on my tail and that 109 manages to get to base and land can that be counted as a Damaged Score ????

Or would you like me to post about the last paragraph in the wish list bud ??????

[NCLawman]

Yeah NCLawman tell him i have learned something new here thanks to you and HiTech and a few other's And that's with a bad memory Isn't it


OK OK OK was just a thought like

Well how about if i say hit the engine of a 109 and have to break off becuase his buddy is on my tail and that 109 manages to get to base and land can that be counted as a Damaged Score ????

Or would you like me to post about the last paragraph in the wish list bud ??????

That's between you and HTC.  I don't have a dog in that fight.   

[Digr1]

You apparently have not been following the thread and have decided to interject yourself like a child into a topic you obviously do not understand.  You said, "If two objects hit, there is a collision ergo you collide."   The whole point of this thread (or at least the explanations of it) is that in AH just because YOU impact an object, does NOT MEAN THAT SAME OBJECT IMPACTED YOU.  Rather than go back and get into a lengthy explanation, I would refer you to Lusches pictures and the previous post regard the "multiple realities" in AH.

As for complaining.... please show me anywhere in this thread where I have complained about anything (excluding your stupid remark).

And finally, regarding my English.  I do speak English very well.  If I had a typo, I beg your ultimate forgiveness.  My secretary was under my desk rather than working at it.  I may have missed a letter.

When you have educated yourself on the topic, please feel free to come back and post again.

you not worth the post, look how you ended that last post. you are vulgar and like to jump in where your not wanted, HTC said he would not change a thing so why are you still posting, think question has been answered. So grow up and keep the postings g rated young ones read this. So go away.since the soultin has been made there is no reason to post anymore unless you need to be held by the hand to see the resolution. but In typical form of a young in you find this your place to use vulgar language and situation.
I poseted and you attacked, so just go home and stfu. I understand the collision situation and you were no help except you have nothing but vulgar things to say. you can post a responce but I will ignore you since you mind is about 15 years old cant wait till this is locked out so you wont have a soapbox to cry from