Advice on BnZ

[Muzzy]

Okay, did some bnz style flying based on your suggestions and did very well.   I still don't think I've got it quite mastered....I will try and post some film on how I did though.  I managed to down a hurri with an A8, and got a kill and an assist flying a D-hog, which for me is nothing short of a miracle. Moreover, with the A8 I'm finding I can actually live longer.

The A8 is very good at regaining energy, but the hogs still give me trouble.  I find it a struggle to regain e, largely because of the poor climb rate. After about 2-3 passes the plane feels very slow and it takes forever to get to a respectable altitude.

The other problem I'm having is resisting the temptation to turn towards a target if he breaks.  I managed to stop myself while flying the hog against an f6f, which let me set up the kill shot on the next pass, but there were a couple of times where I found myself trying to follow him through the turn, which caused me to bleed energy.

Practice, Practice.

-Muzzy

[InCrypt]

I too am trying to learn the fast fight. It's been very frustrating trying to transition from turn fighting. Everyone teaches turn fighting, and they do it very well. I've been studying it aggressively for the last 7 months - but to implement it in the MA's is a death sentence. Learning how to stay fast, and maneuver for a kill, has me crosswired. Every time I'm up high after a pass, I throw out flaps to increase my turn over the top. I go flaps out and it's TURN FIGHT TIME! (Could really use a voice in my ear reminding me to stay fast )

I asked this question to one of my squaddies the other day, his response was "It's all in the sight picture." What I got from that was, it's learning how to gage lead, and firing distance - the firing window - so that you can get a kill, or crippling, shot in just one pass. Cannons help, I'm sure, but I've seen guys doing it in the Big Blue Birds - P47 included - who only have .50's. So, my add on question to this is: Does anyone have any drills that will train for "Sight Picture?" And don't just give me the ubiquitous "It takes time and experience." I don't buy it. There HAS to be a drill, some way to master the principals. Otherwise our real fly-boys would never be able to do it because they don't get that much practice.

[Muzzy]

Well my deflection shooting is horrible, and the bz kills and assists I've gotten have been by gauging when the opponent is going to turn so I get a clean six shot as I go by.  Failing that, I'll fire off a quick burst if I can get my nose aimed in front of his flight path. 

One thing that helped me a little was bnz'ing the drones offline, coming in at different angles.  The only thing I know for sure is unload g and if your sights are on the con when you're about to fire (on a deflection shot) then you're going to miss.

[Dawger]

Dawger, so it seems from the film that you get right above the target, or as near as you can, and dive straight down on them, then as they turn, you roll to point your lift vector in their direction?

It seems also that in most cases you are staying relatively close to the furball (not extending away) by using the 38's climbing ability? Would you have to extend further in a plane that doesn't climb as well, like the 51?

Completely dependent on the situation. That fur ball contained 109's that would be able to climb with the P38 but they were all distracted.

[Muzzy]

Well I didn't land many bz kills today but I did get a few assists...and 2 good opportunites blown because I forgot to switch my cannons on 

I am finding that this style of play is improving my survivability though. I can usually make it home, kills or no kills.

[BaldEagl]

I've flown the 109A-8 a lot (along with the Bf109K-4, F6F-5 and Spits V, IX and XVI as my primary rides over the years).  A properly flown BnZ or "bounce" in an A8 is nearly impossible for even the best turning enemy planes to escape from due to the fact that you can roll your lift vector much faster than they can turn.  You can't delay on your execution though otherwise you'll bleed too much E pulling the stick back.  Always turn gently in a 190.  Never yank the stick.  Always use your roll rate.  Always anticipate.

If you mess up the first pass you have one more try then it's time to extend away regaining lost E/alt.  If the con climbs on his break extend out climbing.  If he flat turns go vertical, roll to his anticipated position and bring it over for your second pass.  Always use WEP while climbing.  Always use WEP while turning.

If you're fast and can see the shot developing you'll have about 540 degrees of flat turning capability before you have to extend away breaking off the fight.

If you feel you're better than your opponent stay in and learn a few things about the 190.  I've turn fought against lesser pilots in all sorts of superior turning aircraft successfully, even going as far as to dump three notches of flaps.  Those wins are particularily gratifying.

Last I checked I was still holding about a 10:1 K/D ratio in the A8.  Some people call it a boat.  I call it a monster.

[Muzzy]

Thanks for the tips.  I haven't really tried rolling to keep the target in my sights, but I have learned about making gentle turns and using roll rate defensively.  So far I'm at 1.26 kill/death (19 kills, 15 deaths) which is the best I've gotten for an individual aircraft.  A couple of questions: does the gun loadout affect performance much, and how much fuel do you usually carry?  I'd kind of like to know how much time I have at 100, 75 and 50 percent.

[BaldEagl]

Thanks for the tips.  I haven't really tried rolling to keep the target in my sights, but I have learned about making gentle turns and using roll rate defensively.  So far I'm at 1.26 kill/death (19 kills, 15 deaths) which is the best I've gotten for an individual aircraft.  A couple of questions: does the gun loadout affect performance much, and how much fuel do you usually carry?  I'd kind of like to know how much time I have at 100, 75 and 50 percent.

I always carry the big gun package with all guns converged to 650 yards and full internal fuel, no drops, no ord but that's just me.  I like having the 20's and 30's for a quick kill, long convergence in case I run into buffs along the way and, I hate to admit, for the poor loser who tries to HO a heavily armed A8, and enough fuel to get where I want to go.  In fact, I fly almost every plane with full internal fuel with rare exceptions.  I figure if I'm good enough at flying I can overcome the additional weight.

[Muzzy]

Ah well, today I sucked.   I tried the 650 convergence and for some reason I kept missing my shots.  I set it back to my regular settings but it didn't seem to help.  I did have some really good fights and pulled off some great defensive flying, but I just wish I'd gotten more shots on target.  I did take parts off of one plane but he ditched.

I intend to keep flying this bird for the month of September as my main ride, while using Corsairs primarily off the CV's and Hurri's for low alt base defense.  We'll see.

I will try to record some of my failures for posting here.  Maybe you guys can help me figure out what I'm doing wrong.

[Zazen13]

Also...

1) More isn't better when it comes to alt advantage. It's much better to be 2-3k above someone than 5-10k...Some planes are better than others at dumping E in the vertical w/o control compression issues.
2) If you miss the first try, keep trying so long as you have an advantage, but don't do it exactly the same way everytime, any decent stick can adjust to you very quickly.
3) If you have a really wily one, think Greebo here, make yourself unpredictable by fake lunges and lengthy positional resets followed by abrupt reversals and re-attacks. Anything to keep yourself unpredictable and him off-balance.