Rough Field AC

[tf15pin]

TA152 and the Spitfires.

Check the direction the wheels on the spit open. Spits nosed over quite easily on landing.

TA was very fragile. It did have outward opening wheels to give a wider wheelbase after complaints by LW pilots regarding the inward version on the earlier German fighters which lead to accidents on rough landings.

It looks like your picture shows a spitfire taking off from a grass field. If you look around it is common to see pictures from the period of spitfires taking off from grass fields.

 There are even photos of spitfires still taking off from grass fields http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/Duxford2002/Spitfires/Sampler/

[Imowface]

not even just grass, look at picures from North Africa, spitfires took off from patches of desert, Most japanese fighters could take off from rough fields, on the easternfront, on both sides, they rarely had the luxury of a paved airstrip

[Zygote404]

Prepared grass or desert fields are not rough fields. Fact is the spitfire had a narrow undercarriage and that lead to stability issues.

"The thick wing of the Hurricane limited its maximum speed but that price gave other advantages. The large strong wing allowed a much wider undercarriage than the Spitfire with corresponding advantages of stability on rough airfields in battle theatres around the world, better performance on waterlogged airstrips and was easier for the less experienced pilot. All of which reduced accidents, improving the aircrafts serviceability level and versatility"
http://members.madasafish.com/~d_hodgkinson/hawker-Vspit.htm

[RTHolmes]

Do you believe that the spitfires were able to land reliably on rough terrain? If so why?

well because almost every period photo or film footage ive ever seen of spits taking off and landing has been on rough strips. the spits still flying use grass fields almost every sortie, and these are 70yr old airframes ...

thats why.

[Ack-Ack]

Prepared grass or desert fields are not rough fields. Fact is the spitfire had a narrow undercarriage and that lead to stability issues.

Yes they are.  Fields without a paved runway and only had a grass or dirt landing strip were considered to be "rough fields".





Dirt strip at Malta



ack-ack

[RTHolmes]

btw the only "preparation" that most of the fields used during BoB had was a coupla centuries of sheep grazing

[Yossarian]

Whats not accurate? Do you believe that the spitfires were able to land reliably on rough terrain? If so why?

I believe they can take off and land from grass strips because I've seen them do it about a hundred times.

[Karnak]

There are a good number of accounts of Spitfires using grass fields to land in, not even roughly prepared as airfields.

[Zygote404]

What you are not getting, is that they were not suited to land on rough fields.  The spits undercarriage was too narrow, it lead to nose-overs and crashes.  Same as the 109.  Which is why 190's were built with landing gear extending outwards rather then inwards and why hurricanes were more suited to landings and takeoffs on rough fields then spitfires.

The spitfire was never designed or intended to land on aircraft carriers either for the same reason.  Necessity caused them to be used as carrier landing ac but they were never designed for it and the incident of crashes was higher then those ac that were more suited.  Servicability and longevity is also an issue you are ignoring.

I can use my commuter car without modifications as a rally car but its unlikely to last very long if I do.

Also

Ack Ack

That airfield was not a rough field.  It was constructed in 1929, 10 years before WW2.  It had hardened dirt runways.  A 10 year old established air base is hardly a rough field.  A rough field is a relatively short, possibly uneven, undrained, possibly soft, possibly rocking,  difficult to land on bit of land that is used as a landing strip.  It is not a prepared landing strip.  Rough airfields were forward operating bases, usually near the front or close to fighting, they were temporary not established air bases.

[Karnak]

What you're not getting is that the nose overs happened due to misuse of brakes.  Sure, don't land in a bog.  Got it.  That goes for a Mossie or Beaufighter too, despite their huge tires.

FYI, far more Bf109s were damaged or lost in landing accidents than Spitfires.  German test pilots commented on how much easier the Spitfire was compared to the Bf109 in those areas.

[JOACH1M]

+1 I've always liked this idea, can make the game alot more realistic too.

[Zygote404]

What you're not getting is that the nose overs happened due to misuse of brakes.  Sure, don't land in a bog.  Got it.  That goes for a Mossie or Beaufighter too, despite their huge tires.

FYI, far more Bf109s were damaged or lost in landing accidents than Spitfires.  German test pilots commented on how much easier the Spitfire was compared to the Bf109 in those areas.

They also happened when hitting a small rock, small hole, soggy earth or any other obstacle in the way.  They were unstable once again, due to the narrow undercarriage.  It didn't go for the beaufighter, it was much more capable because it was much more stable and robust.

Don't take my word for it though, do a simple google search of "spitfire fragile" and have a look at how many hits you get regarding its landing gear and its fragility in general.

[Zygote404]

Heres another excerpt from Soviet Lend-Lease Fighter Aces of World War 2 By George Mellinger, Jim Laurier.

"Air interception duty proved to be the VVS's preferred use for the spitfire, since PVO units protected fixed locations and flew from developed airfields that were less likely to inflict damage on the British fighters fragile landing gear".
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=CJHGyw6HGqEC&pg=PA79&lpg=PA79&dq=fragile+spitfire&source=bl&ots=2BhtAg6ndA&sig=d8GT6Ru70Y9ZWRYQRmnE3MOH3Mo&hl=en&ei=zzCUTNygCYudcZTonaQF&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CDAQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=fragile%20spitfire&f=false

This is a rough / rudimentary strip.  Big difference from the mown grass you see spits landing on.  


Malta Airfields

Kalafrana


Luqa


Qrendi


Safi


Ta Kali


Compare them all to the top pic.  They were all prepared airfields.

[Karnak]

'Cause that is a really exhaustive search of photos.

[Zygote404]

That was every airfield on malta during ww2 period.