FW190-A8

[Ruah]

yup, game =/= reality at all.

However, I will say that the A5 is not that much slower then th late war rides - sure, its slower, but I think acceleration, roll rate, and climb rate are more important factors in dogfighting then top speed.  But thats just me, I think the A5 can compete with th 51 perfectly fine unless the opponent really takes his/her tim to reset the fight, but then again, you get to re-asses your situation too. . .

[Ack-Ack]

Other than the possible weight issue with the FW 190A-8, what else is supposedly wrong with any of the Luftwaffe fighters?  I keep hearing how the flight model for some of the Luftwaffe planes are porked but no one has been able to show any data.  So I'm curious, what is wrong?

ack-ack

[Oldman731]

When using the A5's strengths (speed, climbrate  & roll), the Spit V did not have much chances.

Historically, of course, Krusty's original statement was true.  The 190 did dominate the Spit 5 when it was introduced.  But with an even start - co-alt and equal numbers - I've never seen it happen in AH.  Even back when we ran the ETO RPS in AvA, the German-side players had to make use of wingman tactics and superior energy on merge to be able to compete.

- oldman (and is the A5's climb rate better than the Spit 5s?)

[DEECONX]

Wait, was this thread about the A8 or A5? 

[Ruah]

A8 threads seem to historically disintigrate rapidy in these forums.  So now its just a general discussion on the A8 and the A5. 

I ould like to apologize for hijacking the origional thread - that was not my intention.

[Ardy123]

I've noticed that the A8's wingtips like to drop more suddenly in the event of a stall than the A5. I guessing the game's fight model is essentially a set of vectors across the wing, estimating the lift, etc... I wonder if the wing was subdivided with more vectors, if it's wingtip stalls would be as drastic and sudden as they are in game, assuming that the wing is modeled such that the whole wing doesn't stall at the same time but rather the wing is subdivided into sections and each subdivision determines if its AoA is to great and stalls individually.

[BaldEagl]

I've noticed that the A8's wingtips like to drop more suddenly in the event of a stall than the A5. I guessing the game's fight model is essentially a set of vectors across the wing, estimating the lift, etc... I wonder if the wing was subdivided with more vectors, if it's wingtip stalls would be as drastic and sudden as they are in game, assuming that the wing is modeled such that the whole wing doesn't stall at the same time but rather the wing is subdivided into sections and each subdivision determines if its AoA is to great and stalls individually.

I'm pretty sure I saw a graphic posted once that showed the wings subdivided into around 10 sections each and that each section was modeled for lift, AOA, etc.

[DEECONX]

So I took both out for a spin today, and forgot how much I like them!   A5 did good with F4Fs, Spits, and La's, better than I remember! And the A8 blew apart anything that crossed it's nose! Actually tried the 30mm's on it and they did great! Just wish they had moar ammo!!!



EDIT:: How do you guys think an A8 would fair with just the pair of 30mm's and 13mm's? Just food for thought. 

[pervert]

I need you to teach me then.  I've been working on the A8 for years, and still consider it just a notch above the P-40B as an iron dog.

So what's the secret?

- oldman

You HO them, wasn't that obvious? 

For the MA the A8 can't compete in a real fight except to HO, I've seen guys attempting to dogfight in them but once they lost the ability to turn nose on and HO (which happens very quickly) the A8 is screwed, but it never was a dogfighter to begin with.

[Krusty]

Wrong.

Simply... WRONG.


The P-47 weighs a lot more than the 190A8. The Typhie is an even worse pig, and yet both of these aircraft are quite capable air to air.

I've dogfought the 190A8 before, light, heavy, and in between. I don't just go for HOs, I don't just look for 1v1s or picks. Throughout numerous engagements it is quite a capable plane. It's outclassed for sure, but to pretend it can only HO and run is sad and reflective more on the pilot than the plane.

[BaldEagl]

You HO them, wasn't that obvious?  

For the MA the A8 can't compete in a real fight except to HO, I've seen guys attempting to dogfight in them but once they lost the ability to turn nose on and HO (which happens very quickly) the A8 is screwed, but it never was a dogfighter to begin with.

Really?  Ask waystin about the day we dogfought A8 vs F6F-5.  Ask XBrit about the day we fought 2 on 1 Spit and F4U against my A8.  Ask JB11 about our A8 vs K4 fight (to be honest he ran out of fuel after 3-5 minutes).  There's really too many to count but those immediately spring to mind.  None involved HOs.  Not saying I won't take a HO shot in the A8 because I'm always carrying the big gun package and always have convergence set at 650 yards.  If you're stupid enough to let me do it with that combo I will.

While I admit the A8 is largely outclassed in most dogfights it's much more capable than you give it credit for which is ultimately a reflection on your piloting ability.  Dogfighting Spits in a 110G-2 with the big gun package is much more challenging than doing it in an A8.  The A8 is excellent at the flat scissors overshoot once the "advantage" is lost.  Nothing can roll with it and keeping wings in-plane is impossible for anything other than another FW.  Even then human reaction time gives the "defender" the advantage and when you fly by and lose your tail it's definately not a HO.

[Perrine]

I've noticed that the A8's wingtips like to drop more suddenly in the event of a stall than the A5.

That's what I noticed too.

I'm not sure if anyone here encountered this...unlike A8, the F8 at least gives you warning (plane buffeting?) and then wingtip drops.  My impression is that F8 is more gentle than A8 when wingtip drops.

[Krusty]

Considering the F-8 shares the A-8 flight model in AH, I'd say you're seeing a placebo effect.

[Charge]

"but it never was a dogfighter to begin with."

http://www.luftwaffe.cz/spit.html  I guess Priller, Hahn and Mayer did not know that.

-C+

[Ruah]

So I took both out for a spin today, and forgot how much I like them!   A5 did good with F4Fs, Spits, and La's, better than I remember! And the A8 blew apart anything that crossed it's nose! Actually tried the 30mm's on it and they did great! Just wish they had moar ammo!!!



EDIT:: How do you guys think an A8 would fair with just the pair of 30mm's and 13mm's? Just food for thought. 

thats what i am saying - the speed difference is only noticable at the extreme high end, climb, acceleration, firepowr, roll-rate are all top class imo. . . but thats my impression.