Author Topic: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!  (Read 4772 times)

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2010, 05:49:34 PM »
Hording is how you win. Ever hear of June 6th 1944 the original horde. Over whelming force in a concentrated area is how you win. It is the American way.

Nah, it is not the American way.  It is more of the Soviet way.  They learned it from the Mongols, and adopted it to their means.  Yes, when able most forces can and will horde for immediate results, but the Germans proved that when all things are equal behind the lines (i.e. supply lines, air power is limited, etc), the 1 vs 10 deficit can be trumped by superior tactics.   
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Offline gldnbb

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #61 on: November 22, 2010, 06:21:47 PM »
Just by the fact there is a dar bar to begin with,  says it all that HTC wants furballing,  wants fight finding.   Extremely fake,  undermines the 'radar concept'  of the bases using radar to defend themselves,  but we go with the flow.


The only solution around the 'fake dar bar'   to reintroduce some type of realism is NOE raids.     Now impossible to hide because the minute we all take off to collect our formations,  we're already showing on enemy 'dar'.   Fake.

PLus it takes too long for pilots to get below 65 feet,  and with occasional pops,  tips off the enemy we're coming.   Fake.

All seeing darbar at 65feet also  lessens the importance to kill the  radar emitter at the base.


Enemies who horde take bases  just as it was done in real life war.... the ones who can't get a horde together  find the only solution is NOE by surprise.   The 65ft  all seeing dar bar  ruins the fun for those that  want to try something different, or can only have a chance to balance out the hording enemies  (aka mostly bishops, which have been observed repeatedly over the past 6 months)


HTC  65ft radar  is a very bad choice.    ANd yes I participate in low, mid,  high alt base  hittings,   and try to organize multi-aspect (high buff support)  base hitting.     What is being said is that HTC is ruining the fun for the one remaining REAL LIFE element  (radar should not be visible everywhere even in friendly territory).
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Offline RufusLeaking

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #62 on: November 22, 2010, 06:32:09 PM »
... but the Germans proved that when all things are equal behind the lines (i.e. supply lines, air power is limited, etc), the 1 vs 10 deficit can be trumped by superior tactics.   
Ahem.  Nazis lost.
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Offline fbWldcat

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #63 on: November 22, 2010, 07:08:11 PM »
Ahem.  Nazis lost.

Plus...

10 Shermans > 1 King Tiger

5x P51s> 1x 109

Perhaps not as disproportionate, but you catch my drift... Of course if you would like to bring up something to do with Thermopylae...
Landing is overrated.
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Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #64 on: November 22, 2010, 07:15:39 PM »
Hording is how you win. Ever hear of June 6th 1944 the original horde. Over whelming force in a concentrated area is how you win. It is the American way.

Actually, the Germans thought the attack was a diversion for the actual attack that was to come at the Pas de Calais.

Misdirection, not a hoard.



wrongway
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Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #65 on: November 22, 2010, 07:51:08 PM »

Misdirection, not a hoard.

wrongway

An example of a hord where the Allied forces arrayed for the invasion of Okinawa.

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Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #66 on: November 22, 2010, 08:59:04 PM »
Hording is how you win. Ever hear of June 6th 1944 the original horde. Over whelming force in a concentrated area is how you win. It is the American way.

Ever hear of  the Battle of Cannae?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cannae

Or the union defeat handed down by R.E. Lee at Chancellorsville?

http://www.suite101.com/content/robert-e-lees-greatest-victory-a198657

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Offline rvflyer

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #67 on: November 22, 2010, 11:56:05 PM »
Just by the fact there is a dar bar to begin with,  says it all that HTC wants furballing,  wants fight finding.   Extremely fake,  undermines the 'radar concept'  of the bases using radar to defend themselves,  but we go with the flow.


  What is being said is that HTC is ruining the fun for the one remaining REAL LIFE element  (radar should not be visible everywhere even in friendly territory).


Oh brother, this is not even  "REAL LIFE", yes the concept is based on WWII but to make the game certain liberties have to be taken to make it playable for a wide range of people. You say "Extremely fake" I say
any computer game is fake.:) If HTC only "wants furballing" it would be easy for him to design the game for only furballs.

Real life is if I am doing aerobatics in my RV-6 and make a mistake I am not coming back with a new airplane.
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Offline ROX

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2010, 01:42:02 PM »
It seems with all the accurate skins, as close to accurate flight modeling, and all the accurate terrains and textures and all the money and research put into that effort that is does seem completely asanine to impose a radar technology into the game that DID NOT EXIST IN WWII.

Scientists, even before WWII were messing around with crude radar and started off in the 30-100 mHz (or so) range and it was not very accurate.  They possessed this radar at Pearl Harbor and you know how well that worked. The scientists on most all sides kicked up the efforts at the start of the war and moved up to 200 mHz (some were experimenting with 400 and even 500 mHz range sets) or so and it was a bit more accurate but still had high inaccuracies and could be easily "jammed" by thin metal foil strips (similar to Christmas tree "icicles" but made of super-thin metal) which the British used to mess with German radar sites along the French, Belgian, and Dutch coasts in advance of night bombing missions of the RAF.  Since the "chaff" took so long to fall to earth it was a decent system.

The absolute "Cadillac" of radar in WWII was installed very late war onto Royal Navy aircraft carrriers and battleships.  It was the best so far but at best, could "see" down to about 500' (Wiki is quoted as saying 650' but take Wiki with a grain of salt).   

By the end of the war they were moving up to the 400 and 500 mHz ranges and getting more accuracy but not one system was accurate to more than 500' above terrain except the Royal Navy had a half-way decent radar that went down to around 500' but the naval only radar was only accurate out to about 15 miles or so due to the curvarure of the Earth and the fact that radio waves bend or "refract" out to about another 30% because radio waves bend.  And that radar was early 1944 and after, and only the big ships got it because it was expensive to build, maintain, and train operators for. There was no "down to 60' accuracy because anythink less than say 500' was considered inaccurate do to "ground clutter"--and still is.

Read your history.  Even the Second Gulf of Tonkin incident in August of 1964 was prompted by inaccurate radar and US naval forces claiming to have been attacked by North Vietnamese naval vessels (read that radar alledgedly accurate down to 60' or so) that prompted America's escallation in the Vietnam War.  Inaccurate naval radar...19 years after the END of WWII.

It wasn't until the late 50's and early 60's that the US military went to 800 mHz to 1 GHz radar that was very much more accurate but still can't ID something at 65'.  Even the Royal Navy losing the destroyer "HMS Sheffield" in the Falklands War in 1980 shows that the Royal Navy STILL had no decent radar 60' or so as an Argentine flown jet firing a French made Extocet Missle that came in at just around that hight, striking the Sheffield broadside and sending her to the bottom.

Watch your local TV coverage of tornado watches and observe as they try to pull it down to less than 500' and it will turn most of the screen to a blob...ground clutter (unless you live in Iowa or Kansas where it's flat as a pancake).  Radar cannot see through mountains or hills, and once a radio signal is deflected off a mountain or hill it is reflected UP--not around an obsticle and is worthless after that in that same direction until the radar rotates back that way again--and STILL cannot "see" through hills or mountains.  Modern (read that 1980 or so and after) radar morphed drastically and was not only straight out but at multiple angles almost to vertical for both tracking aircraft and aerial objects but moisture filled clouds as well and color-weather radar began to help track tornado rotation as well as developing tornado rotation--and that's saved countless lives since then--and IT cannot read much below 500'--read that "ground clutter".

Radar in WWII was at VHF and then graduated to UHF.  Anyone who has studied radio signals, and radar IS a radio signal, and history, knows that the technology for radar accuracy to much below 500' (much less 200' or even the insane 60') DID NOT EXIST IN WWII in any theater, period.



Offline AWwrgwy

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #69 on: November 23, 2010, 01:54:27 PM »
It seems with all the accurate skins, as close to accurate flight modeling, and all the accurate terrains and textures and all the money and research put into that effort that is does seem completely asanine to impose a radar technology into the game that DID NOT EXIST IN WWII.


Yes, the game would be much more fun if, like real life, you flew dozens of sorties without ever seeing the enemy.


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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #70 on: November 23, 2010, 02:09:07 PM »
:(9 has always said the concessions are made because its a game. Technically speaking, this game has nothing to do with WWII. It's a game that happens to use models based off of WWII equipment.

Radar is like it is so players can find each other and engage in aerial and land based combat

Offline ROX

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #71 on: November 25, 2010, 11:25:15 AM »
Yes, the game would be much more fun if, like real life, you flew dozens of sorties without ever seeing the enemy.


wrongway


If any one single player BEFORE the radar was switched back to "not even realistic in 1964" couldn't see the enemy coming by watching the map and subsiquent red darbar (either dissapearing and coming back or solid) then they need some skills.  In WWII pilots flew boatloads of sorties without ever seeing one single enemy plane.  But this game has morphed from trying it's best to be realistic into feeding the masses immediate gratification in a fast-food, microwave world.

Offline Delirium

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #72 on: November 25, 2010, 11:27:26 AM »
In WWII pilots flew boatloads of sorties without ever seeing one single enemy plane.  But this game has morphed from trying it's best to be realistic into feeding the masses immediate gratification in a fast-food, microwave world.

You would rather fly in the MA, FSO, or a scenario without ever seeing an enemy?

Please, tell me you're joking.
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Offline Rino

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2010, 11:40:11 AM »
    Sadly, I don't think he is.
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Offline 68ZooM

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Re: radar change again???????!!!!!!!!
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2010, 11:45:06 AM »
You would rather fly in the MA, FSO, or a scenario without ever seeing an enemy?

Please, tell me you're joking.

Isnt that called offline mode???   unless your to timid for the AI in there, i dunno  :huh
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