P47m vs. P-47n: Round II

[bozon]

M has better paint jobs, hence it is the superior plane.

[Ruah]

I agree with krusty on this one - I tend to select the N more then the M because once the fuel is equalish, th eN performs better I think. . . but I am not an expert Jug pilot and rarely use it. but when I do, it tends to be the N.

Have I been making the wrong choise?

[bj229r]

M's better plane in 4 of 5 situations, but who wants to Always fly the best plane? We'd see an arena full of F4u4's and Tempests...kinda like DA lake

[JOACH1M]

M's better plane in 4 of 5 situations, but who wants to Always fly the best plane? We'd see an arena full of F4u4's and Tempests...kinda like DA lake

Dont forget the chogs

[VonKost]

P47D11 ftw

I'm with bar on this one!

But between the M and N it just depends if I'm in a PTO mood or an ETO mood.  Jugs have always been my favorite fighter.

[W7LPNRICK]

Why would they put the extra weight of wing mounts/rails if the M doesn't carry rockets or wing bombs? weird. & Yes I think the paint job makes it fly faster too.. 

[EDO43]

It may not carry rockets or underwing bombs but it can carry drop tanks on the pylons.  Does that answer your question?  

The Republic specification comparison between the two are at a combat gross weights of 16,330 lbs. for the N and 13,275 lbs. for the M.  Combat weight includes full internal fuel and full ammunition load.  Wing loading is 55lbs/sq. ft for the N and 41lbs/sq.ft for the M at combat weight.  Empty weights are 10,998 lbs. for the N and 10,422 lbs. for the M.  The N has a useful load of 5,332 lbs while the M has a useful load of 2,852. The N has larger fuel and oil capacity than does the M.  

Naturally, given two aircraft (of the same basic design) at the same weight, the one with the greater wing area will perform better in certain aspects.  They should probably be very close in performance at the exact same weight but since we cannot compare them "in-game" at the exact same weight, we'll never really know.  If HTC has modeled the above statistics correctly (and there's no reason to believe they haven't), we cannot pit one against the other at any given weight, it's not an option.  25% fuel in an N is not the same as 25% fuel in the M, the N has a greater fuel capacity.  Also, the empty weights are different so any difference there will be carried through any loadout as well.  If we could customize the loadouts, we could then compare the two.  Or, if we could add a ballast weight to the M to make it equal to the empty weight of the N and then add identical fuel loads...that would work as well.  But since we cannot, at this time, comparing them is out of the question and it whichever is better boils down to personal preference.

I still prefer the N for ground attack and the M for air-air.  

[bozon]

It is very easy to have the same fuel and ammo load for both. Easiest is in offline when you can play with the fuel burn multiplier to burn the fuel fast to the desired amount and then lower it to minimum so it does not loose fuel during the testing.

In the online arena, you can simply take N with 50% and D25/40/M with 75%. That is quite close in lbs fuel load. The D11 has a smaller internal tank than the others.

[bj229r]

It is very easy to have the same fuel and ammo load for both. Easiest is in offline when you can play with the fuel burn multiplier to burn the fuel fast to the desired amount and then lower it to minimum so it does not loose fuel during the testing.

In the online arena, you can simply take N with 50% and D25/40/M with 75%. That is quite close in lbs fuel load. The D11 has a smaller internal tank than the others.

Yet the %%@#@#% thing catches fire 3X as much....


<unrelated:N is 10% heavier than the D dry (I assume M is same as D in that regard) and wingspan is 2 feet longer....not sure how to even all that up, except maybe fiddle with gas until they have same flight times>

[oakranger]

I rather take the P-47D-25.  Can fight the N easily but have to work at getting the M shot down.

[Krusty]

I think that's part of the placebo effect, oak.

[Lepape2]

P47N
{
>> Has the lowest stall speed (at max power output) of all in extremely slow turn fights (ex: VS F4Us);

>> The guns are farther apart(Hard to snap shoot someone < 200 unless the con is passing side to side)... I don't find it a nuisance personally;

>> 25% fuel == 50% fuel in P47M (roughly);

>> Can be pushed the hardest in a turn fight (It forgives a lot near the stall limit). Those who say they can only fight no one

[...] other than newbs in TBM or SBD. IMO  

in it are obviously mistaken;

>> Flat stalls easier (more predictable for combat);

>> Not very good at BnZ for a long time(slow climb rate);

>> Better rudder authority... or rather yaw inertia (at slow speeds);
}

P47M
{
>> Really does climb better at same fuel time, good for energy fights going up (ex: VS 38 or K4);

>> Good all around fighter but not versatile enough for me unless I'm pissed off and want a quick kill at someone in particular  ;
}

|| Both rides entering fights at cruising speed && at 5k is considered not risky AT ALL;

|| Both rides are as much likely to be jumped by cons as mossies or zekes as they are considered to be an easy target.
Keep that in mind when you think about taking them out because they are mistaken;

|| Both rides can DOUBLE fuel economy with RPM down and keep a decent speed. Since these rides are very much dependent on weight for efficient turn fights / climb rate, taking half fuel load can be a blessing;

|| Both rides require patience, practice, and quick decision making to survive... not altitude;

[bj229r]

Well-stated Lepape

[dirtdart]

Yeah, this has been rehashed so many times I don't really see a need for yet another thread.

N and M are nearly identical in performance. The N gives you an edge in a few areas (roll rate, wing area, lower stall speed) at the expense of a bit of extra weight.


ANYTHING you do in a 47M, you can do just as well in a 47N. Placebo effect and wishful thinking make folks claim it's the best

We had a lengthy discussion on country the other night about this.  One thing I am curious about is the effect of the different turbo and prop on the 47N on fuel.  It was implied that because the 47N carried more internal fuel that it then had to have greater range.  If the engine/prop/wing were optimized for high altitude flight, then would that airframe combination be much less efficient at lower altitudes.  Further, an increase in span on the N could alter the C/D.  All I am saying, greater fuel load does not always equal greater range. 

Personally I prefer the M to the N because of the wing and the low altitude performance, seeing as how the bulk of fights take place low.  I think other guys are drawn to the N, because they can fly a fighter in attack mode, and it can run after it drops a ton of ord.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/p-47/p-47.html

This link has some good 47 data in terms of scanned original documents.  For those of us without the luxury of possessing the actual plane manuals, owning one, or having flown one in combat, we are only as good as our resources.  So, please understand. 

[FLS]

Your link shows the M has slightly better fuel economy. Comparing 305 gallons internal fuel in the M to 550 gallons in the N makes it clear which has the greater range.