Author Topic: To Appomattox  (Read 2349 times)

Offline fudgums

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #30 on: January 17, 2011, 08:54:27 AM »
I'm sorry, but you've lost me there, care to elaborate?

-Penguin

Give Glory to the USSR? Who which killed millions of their own civilians during the reign of their Empire.

Yea, and we were very close into going into nuclear war with for about 50 years. Yea, it is so unfair.
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Offline Penguin

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #31 on: January 17, 2011, 08:58:44 AM »
Give Glory to the USSR? Who which killed millions of their own civilians during the reign of their Empire.

Yea, and we were very close into going into nuclear war with for about 50 years. Yea, it is so unfair.

No, not give glory, at least mention their efforts to take down Hitler!  Yes, I do know the horrors of their regime.  From the purges to the starvation of the Ukrainians, these guys were anything but nice.  However, they proved to be an invaluable ally in the war.

I dare venture no further than the 50s, since I don't want Skuzzy's banstick inserted into some of my rather rather 'tender' bodily cavities. 

-Penguin

Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #32 on: January 17, 2011, 04:11:20 PM »

The United States only entered the European Theatre for only 10 months, June 1944 to April 1945, and although the fighting was brutal, it was nothing compared to what the Soviet Union had to do. 

-Penguin

A few references that may enlighten you...

Let's start with the air war.

http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/wwii_combat_chronology.pdf

Browse thru the various documents on US ground combat in North Africa, Sicily and Italy prior to 1944 on the US Army Combined Arms Research Library..

http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=/p4013coll8

Need we discuss the value of Lend Lease to the Soviet Union's survival in 1942 and 1943?

Also, various sources state that the US suffered 137,000 dead, and 198,000 wounded in WWI, plus there were in excess of American 2 million troops in Europe when Germany asked for a ceasefire.

Seriously, let's not deviate from the thread. Start a new one to debate US participation in world wars....


My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline soda72

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #33 on: January 17, 2011, 04:18:58 PM »
  The US did not win World War I, rather, it delivered an even then paltry 250,000 troops to the front. 

250,000? well maybe in the beginning of 1917..    However by the end of the war 4.7 million Americans would end up serving.  Where a little over 2 million troops would make it to France with 1.3 million seeing combat.  

And 'yes' the US bringing in millions of fresh troops in the war contributed to it ending when it did.   I'm not saying it was the only factor(The German high seas fleet was already well contained before the US entered), but if you take away that support, WWI doesn't end November 1918.


Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2011, 04:54:25 PM »
Kansas was the ember that sparked the civil war, 3 months after, they declare as a free slave state.  Bleeding Kansas is was a war with Kansas (anti-slave) and Missouri board ruffians (pro-slavery) from 1854-1860.  This event is where John Brown is from.  Bleeding Kansas was over shadow in history books do to the main war. 

It actually started in 1820 with the Missouri compromise.
A yappy back seater like Jester wasn’t popular or fun to fly with, more of an unnecessary distraction than anything else---Puma44

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Offline Tango

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2011, 05:00:47 PM »
A few references that may enlighten you...

Let's start with the air war.

http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/wwii_combat_chronology.pdf

Browse thru the various documents on US ground combat in North Africa, Sicily and Italy prior to 1944 on the US Army Combined Arms Research Library..

http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=/p4013coll8

Need we discuss the value of Lend Lease to the Soviet Union's survival in 1942 and 1943?

Also, various sources state that the US suffered 137,000 dead, and 198,000 wounded in WWI, plus there were in excess of American 2 million troops in Europe when Germany asked for a ceasefire.

Seriously, let's not deviate from the thread. Start a new one to debate US participation in world wars....




Lets not confuse anyone with the facts. ;)
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Offline Penguin

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2011, 05:07:12 PM »
A few references that may enlighten you...

Let's start with the air war.

http://www.airforcehistory.hq.af.mil/Publications/fulltext/wwii_combat_chronology.pdf

Browse thru the various documents on US ground combat in North Africa, Sicily and Italy prior to 1944 on the US Army Combined Arms Research Library..

http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm4/browse.php?CISOROOT=/p4013coll8

Need we discuss the value of Lend Lease to the Soviet Union's survival in 1942 and 1943?

Also, various sources state that the US suffered 137,000 dead, and 198,000 wounded in WWI, plus there were in excess of American 2 million troops in Europe when Germany asked for a ceasefire.

Seriously, let's not deviate from the thread. Start a new one to debate US participation in world wars....




:Self Facepalm.  After several years of AH2, how could I have forgotten about the air war?  You have a point, however, reread my post, you'll notice why I said only ten months (Hint: It's what particular theatre the US entered).  However, the Italian Theatre brings up an interesting new question...  :headscratch:

Thanks for snapping me back to reality, there must have been some other stuff going on in my head.  :salute

One other thing, though, those links lead to a HUGE database, would you mind posting the links/ page numbers to/of the pages you're using as evidence? 

-Penguin

(If I'm wrong on other points, I'll admit it)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2011, 05:10:46 PM by Penguin »

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2011, 08:34:27 PM »
I honestly think Jeff Daniels captured  Chamberlains character perfectly. He was absolutely superb in the roll. Wouldn't mind seeing him in this production. I think another actor is going to have some big shoes to fill to top his portrayal

(Image removed from quote.)

Agreed, Sheen I think did the best Lee and Tom Berenger was outstanding as Longstreet.

The women look to be all miss cast all being about 100 times more attractive then their RL counterparts
 Paige Turco with the right hairdoo and make up might be able to pull it off but  Helen McCrory is too young looking and much too skinny in the face.

I have someone better in mind but I cant get the name to come off my fingertips
Death is no easy answer
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Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #38 on: January 17, 2011, 09:26:08 PM »
:Self Facepalm.  After several years of AH2, how could I have forgotten about the air war?  You have a point, however, reread my post, you'll notice why I said only ten months (Hint: It's what particular theatre the US entered).  However, the Italian Theatre brings up an interesting new question...  :headscratch:

Thanks for snapping me back to reality, there must have been some other stuff going on in my head.  :salute

One other thing, though, those links lead to a HUGE database, would you mind posting the links/ page numbers to/of the pages you're using as evidence? 

-Penguin

(If I'm wrong on other points, I'll admit it)

I'll make it easy... Easy to read/view web pages, without searching databases.

Operation Torch:
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/optorch4.pdf

Operation Husky:
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/husky/default.aspx

Operation Avalanche: A 20 minute documentary...
http://www.factualtv.com/documentary/Crusade-in-Europe-Assault-on-Italy

Don't forget the Battle of the Atlantic.....

My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #39 on: January 17, 2011, 09:29:36 PM »
Agreed, Sheen I think did the best Lee and Tom Berenger was outstanding as Longstreet.


The problem was the script and the wardrobe. Those unifoorms were too clean for someone out campaigning in such filthy conditions.

When they showed Jackson in God's and General's the cleanliness of his uniform was appauling, that they would over look one of the biggest details of Jackson's biggest setbacks which was the condition of his uniforms. On one occasion some Ladies presented Gen. Jackson with a brand new uniform and he still refused to wear it.  When you watch the movie though, his uniform is spiffy clean.



My wife says " it's just a movie "

I say that if your going to re-create the past and re-tell a story of the history of this country then you shold go to all possible lengths to make sure that story is projected to the viewer in the proper way.....the way it happened.
A yappy back seater like Jester wasn’t popular or fun to fly with, more of an unnecessary distraction than anything else---Puma44

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Offline Penguin

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2011, 03:42:59 PM »
I'll make it easy... Easy to read/view web pages, without searching databases.

Operation Torch:
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/jfq_pubs/optorch4.pdf

Operation Husky:
http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wwii/husky/default.aspx

Operation Avalanche: A 20 minute documentary...
http://www.factualtv.com/documentary/Crusade-in-Europe-Assault-on-Italy

Don't forget the Battle of the Atlantic.....



Thank you, sir, it seems like I was off by about a year.  Am I correct?

-Penguin

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2011, 05:37:05 PM »
The problem was the script and the wardrobe. Those unifoorms were too clean for someone out campaigning in such filthy conditions.

When they showed Jackson in God's and General's the cleanliness of his uniform was appauling, that they would over look one of the biggest details of Jackson's biggest setbacks which was the condition of his uniforms. On one occasion some Ladies presented Gen. Jackson with a brand new uniform and he still refused to wear it.  When you watch the movie though, his uniform is spiffy clean.



My wife says " it's just a movie "

I say that if your going to re-create the past and re-tell a story of the history of this country then you shold go to all possible lengths to make sure that story is projected to the viewer in the proper way.....the way it happened.

I noticed the uniforms as well. And while we're at it. The beards were just a bit too neat. But thats a wardrobe and make up dept snaffu
But I was referring to the quality of work both did as actors portraying their characters.
I think each did a fine job in pulling off the characters they were portraying Berenger in particular
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3myVtAjpkFo


On an ending note. we visited Gettysburg the summer before last. It was my second trip there.
It was a HOt summer day just as it was back then and my daughter and I decided to take the hike taken during Pickets Charge.
did I mention it was HOt just like that day? LOL
One hell of a long walk in that heat. and we were walking on a beaten down path and not across ground that had in all probability been plowed that spring making the ground softer and thus a bit more laborious to walk over.
My the time we reached the stone wall (high water mark) we were beat and thirsty and dreading the long walk back. And were werent wearing any gear or carrying any muskets.I cant even imagine what it must have really been like. Hot sun with the clothing they wore then, under fire. I wonder how many collapsed out of sheer heat exhaustion.

That clump of trees Yonder doesnt look all that bad from the opposing hill.


Till ya walk it there and back that is. I think you can see by the look on my daughters face that she's about had it
And yea, thats me.


Anyway. Anyone ever gets the chance you gotta do the walk on a hot summer day.
Bless the souls of those who did it for real all those years ago cause its alot tougher then it looks.

And just for chuckles.
this is the view of little round top from the top of Devils Den
Chamberlains position was in relation to this picture in the woods and to the right.
I mention this because it is another slight innacurracy i the movie.
the terrain at Chamberlains position is pretty much the same as you see here. only with alot of trees. And ALOT of big rocks. That you see very little of in the movie.
That charge. down hill over those rocks. Had to be "the damnedest thing" anyone ever saw.


« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 06:33:12 PM by DREDIOCK »
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline RichardDarkwood

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2011, 06:48:46 PM »
Hot is an understatement. At last year's Gettysburg event there was five re-enactors that went down with heat exhaustion. For anyone that does decide to make the trip to Gettysburg, Make sure you go when they are having the event for the battle. If your at the actual battlefield when the re-enactment is going on the sounds of muskets and cannon going off in the distance will chill your soul.

In 2004 I travelled to Charlestown,S.C. to be in the burial parade for the hunley crew members. Long story short...it was a four mile walk in 80 degree weather. There was 1200 of us in that parade and atleast 30 or more fell out on the death march as some were calling it.
A yappy back seater like Jester wasn’t popular or fun to fly with, more of an unnecessary distraction than anything else---Puma44

https://www.twitch.tv/hounds_darkwood
CO--The Bad Guys

Offline Widewing

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2011, 08:52:59 PM »
My wife and I visit Gettysburg every two years... We spend our days wandering the battlefield and the evenings walking the town and having a quiet dinners. Back in 1996, I wrote my Thesis on the Gettysburg campaign. I avoided the "what-ifs" and concentrated on Lee's predicament... He could stay in Pennsylvania only as long as he could avoid having to concentrate his army. Once concentrated, he had no more than 5 days of 3/4 rations and fodder. After that, he would be forced to start for home. Living off the land, without any supply line is precarious at best. This, as much as any reason, was why Lee prosecuted the fight so hard. Time was not on his side.
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Widewing

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Offline Saxman

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Re: To Appomattox
« Reply #44 on: January 19, 2011, 07:36:12 AM »
I'm sure they'll gloss over the War in Missouri. Shame, too. that was a civil war WITHIN the Civil War and interesting history in its own right.
Ron White says you can't fix stupid. I beg to differ. Stupid will usually sort itself out, it's just a matter of making sure you're not close enough to become collateral damage.