Kill to Killed ratio

[Plawranc]

I find the best pilots have K.D's that sit at about 2.0 or 3.0.

Because to me that shows that this is someone who is not a noob, but jumps into fights wherever he can and gets out ahead. My KD, usually sits around 2.5 so I can hold my own against the pro's and dominate most "average to above average" pilots in the game in a lone combat. But It doesnt stop me from "pulling a leroy" by diving into 20 to 1 odds.

At least thats how I see it.

[Dead Man Flying]

The game will never be as great as it once was when all the gods descended upon it at one single moment in aces high history to create eutopian furballs, an arena based purely on COMBAT, basically doing everything players are doing now except a million times better because they are gods and gods are better than xbox players.  Look Fugi, the gods have ascended, the game is left with mere mortals now.  How can mortals ever live up to the definition of combat that was laid out by the great gods of aces high?  It is an impossible standard to achieve.  We are all going to cartoon hell for our sins.

I think nostalgia clouds many memories of the "good old days."  I remember plenty of ganging, BnZing, and definitely HOing (the C-Hog was notorious for that) back in 2000.  Wasn't the record for most consecutive kills without dying set back in those days?  How could it have been if people weren't flying to live? 

The fights seemed more abundant because there were fewer bases somewhat closer together, so the flight time to action was a lot shorter than before HTC introduced the larger maps.  Beyond that, everything "bad" that goes on today went on back then but with smaller numbers and smaller maps.  The fights might have been a lot more personal, but it was hardly the chivalric furballing paradise some suggest.

[The Fugitive]

LoL.  All I can say is you are HIGH maintenance.   Guys in the MA don't fly the way you want them to, guys at the furball lake don't fly the way you want them too, guys on missions don't fly the way you want them to....   

I don't see anything more to add to this conversation.  I just reread those Zazen13 quotes again and they so perfectly frame the issue that there isn't really anything to add to them. 

I suggest you reread them again too, just on the off chance something might click in your head.


Oh and Ink,  we'll look into getting you that t-shirt. 

,
Wab

Wow!!!  You just don't get it, I'm not high maintenance at all. I just want one little thing, I want people to FIGHT thats it. Don't horde, don't hide, just fight.

Why would you chase a con for more than 30 seconds if he is faster and clearly is not going to fight?  That's just dumb.

I give them an extra 20 seconds or so just because I'm looking for the 1 vs 1 that much more.

Not true.  Killing the con is combat.  If he is too much of a nimwit to evade then it's an easy kill.  Side Note:  What are you looking for exactly anyways, you probably outclass the majority of the players in the game in the skill department.  If they all fought your fight you'd hardly ever lose, they'd get their tulips handed to them consistently and you would have the most fun.  Seems like a great situation for you.  Them?  Not so much.

Well I'm glad you think so highly of my skill  all I'm looking for is a fight. Picking a nimwit isn't a fight, it's just clubbing the next baby seal. I want the lemmings to learn how to fight and then fight. If most of these guys spent have their time playing learning they would out class me and I'd have plenty of fights!

Or Option C. Go to the DA.

Like I said, DA is just timing and tricks.

I'm fairly certain the main reason Zazen doesn't play much anymore has nothing to do with your over dramatic description of the fall of aces high.

We won't know unless he stops by and lets us know, but it isn't to much of a stretch to think that the reasons I "Suggested" might be true.

The game will never be as great as it once was when all the gods descended upon it at one single moment in aces high history to create eutopian furballs, an arena based purely on COMBAT, basically doing everything players are doing now except a million times better because they are gods and gods are better than xbox players.  Look Fugi, the gods have ascended, the game is left with mere mortals now.  How can mortals ever live up to the definition of combat that was laid out by the great gods of aces high?  It is an impossible standard to achieve.  We are all going to cartoon hell for our sins.

It's true that the "skilled" players of today are no where near as good as the players of old, especially if you consider me "probably outclass the majority of the players in the game in the skill department", but that doesn't mean that the game play has to suffer. We have more people playing now so it would stand to reason the if the ratio stayed the same that there should be a pretty good size group of players that should be "God like", even the average players should be much better than they are. Nobody puts in the time to learn to fight anymore, they are too busy following the horde trying to impress their <snicker,snicker> leaders.

Interesting statement from a person that tried to humiliate me on 200 because of my score.  I don't give a rats-six about my score and, as such, my flying usually reflects my disregard

HEY, HEY, HEY !! This is the "kick Fugi" thread! Lets not diffuse the hate by directing at others here! 

I think nostalgia clouds many memories of the "good old days."  I remember plenty of ganging, BnZing, and definitely HOing (the C-Hog was notorious for that) back in 2000.  Wasn't the record for most consecutive kills without dying set back in those days?  How could it have been if people weren't flying to live? 

The fights seemed more abundant because there were fewer bases somewhat closer together, so the flight time to action was a lot shorter than before HTC introduced the larger maps.  Beyond that, everything "bad" that goes on today went on back then but with smaller numbers and smaller maps.  The fights might have been a lot more personal, but it was hardly the chivalric furballing paradise some suggest.

Sure there was HOin and ganging (tho the gangs were smaller, I remember a film of Wldthing taking on a gang of 7, and killing them all  ), but I thing the kill streak was due to skill not so much timid flying.

The map idea doesn't hold water. We still have the maps Mindinao, NDisles, Baltic, and the "Uterus". These are the old small maps we played on, they didn't change them, moving bases farther away. Today we have the horde, in the old days we had squads that fought each other. Instead of the squads grouping together into a horde they would have 5 fights going all along the front. You had a choice of the type of fights you wanted defending the sneak, defending the big squad attack , attacking with a small group, attacking with a large mission and so on. Remember, small groups were 4-6, and large were 8-12 per side. COMBAT was all over the map!

[Dead Man Flying]

Sure there was HOin and ganging (tho the gangs were smaller, I remember a film of Wldthing taking on a gang of 7, and killing them all  ), but I thing the kill streak was due to skill not so much timid flying.

The gangs were smaller because the game population was significantly smaller, particularly back in 2000-2001.  More players means larger furballs.  You can't reasonably expect the same size furballs when the game has four times as many people online during peak times now.

Also, any incredibly long kill streak possesses elements of skill, luck, and timidity.  I believe it was Fishu who had something like 360+ kills in a beta tour flying an A8, and even he said it was more discipline than skill.  It also helped that he had a much smaller pool of potential planes to fly against; back then the A8 was one of the faster planes available, and it was close to the most lethal.

The map idea doesn't hold water. We still have the maps Mindinao, NDisles, Baltic, and the "Uterus". These are the old small maps we played on, they didn't change them, moving bases farther away. Today we have the horde, in the old days we had squads that fought each other. Instead of the squads grouping together into a horde they would have 5 fights going all along the front. You had a choice of the type of fights you wanted defending the sneak, defending the big squad attack , attacking with a small group, attacking with a large mission and so on. Remember, small groups were 4-6, and large were 8-12 per side. COMBAT was all over the map!

I recall significantly smaller maps before Mindinao, NDisles, Baltic, or any of that stuff -- beta stuff that they haven't revisited in over a decade.  The fights were just as crazy and inconsiderate back then as when I stopped playing about four years ago.  The difference is degree.

Go to the forum search engine and look up the terms "horde gang gangbang" from about 1500 days to 9999 days ago.  There are four pages of threads from 1999 to 2001 where people whine and moan about being ganged, about the decline of skill in the game, etc etc.  So basically, it's the same stuff we see now.

[Anaxogoras]

Fugi,

You do make some interesting points.  In a way, AH is a victim of its own success.  With so many players and a constant influx of fresh blood, the average skill level is rather low.  Didn't snailman demonstrate that the median K/D is something like .5?  Now, I know score matters little, but even the most reckless pilots who know a thing or two manage more than that.  Basically, there's a small cache of pilots who dominate the air-to-air part of the game, and the large majority are their targets.

Personally, I find the main arena rather boring.  I prefer events like FSO and scenarios, but I can also appreciate getting my bellybutton kicked by someone like batfink in the DA (not the pond).  There is a lot to learn by constantly dying to the best.  However, the culture of the main arena is hardly going to encourage someone to take more risks.  Screw up in a fight and see your name posted here with "OWNED" in the thread title.  Or someone wants to fly the P-51, ("because it has 50cals and doesn't afraid of anything"  ) learns that it's best to keep it fast, and gets berated with all sorts of insults when they don't provide the fight some vet wants.  I mean, is this how we really expect to cause improvement?  Just read this thread.  I'd almost say it reminds me of bickering high school kids, but then that's unfair to high school kids because they're far more artful at persuasion.

There's a big maturity gap in the AH culture, and until we see people treat each other with a lot more respect, it's not going to be the kind of environment that supports experimentation and learning.  Other flight sim communities are different.  I've seen some nasty bickering at the 1C forums and RoF forums where these gear-heads and other fanatics get real hot and bothered over how much power an engine produced at 20,000ft, but I've never seen so much nastiness over flying habits.

[grizz441]

General Fugitive, you have what I like to call The "Good Old Days" Syndrome.  It is a neurological disorder where one thinks that identical past experiences were superior to the same current experiences.  Treatments include hypnosis, a visit to the Dr. Phil show, or in extreme cases, shock therapy.  Consult your physician.   

[Citabria]

It matters not if you get 352 kills without dying, if you strike fear in the hearts of noobs in the virtual sky, fly dora the beguiler very quickly hither and yon, mithicly flip turn your vaunted twin tailed devil...

in spite of anything you do or do not do in this game...

you are dweebs.

every last one of you.

[SQUAT!]

I see the best sticks have a high kill to sortie not kill to death. Anyone can stick to vulching or be timid to protect kill to death. But to go up every sortie and get kills is a harder accomplishment

[Yeager]

I see the best sticks have a high kill to sortie not kill to death. Anyone can stick to vulching or be timid to protect kill to death. But to go up every sortie and get kills is a harder accomplishment

I always thought it relatively easy to grab a little turnburner, find a gaggle, kill 4-5 noobs, and THEN gett whacked. 
Rinse repeat, rinse repeat, rinse repeat.  Wala!  great K/S.

It seemed very easy to do.  As long as the getting whacked part didnt get old.

Bottom line:  There is a game in AH for every player and a unique result that each one seeks.  The trick is for us to stop being juvinile tulips to each other, insisting that every other player lacks brains because they do not see it, or play it the way we do.

[DrBone1]

General Fugitive, you have what I like to call The "Good Old Days" Syndrome.  It is a neurological disorder where one thinks that identical past experiences were superior to the same current experiences.  Treatments include hypnosis, a visit to the Dr. Phil show, or in extreme cases, shock therapy.  Consult your physician.   

thats wrong 

[Shuffler]

Shuff...so far this tour you have 331 kills flying P38s in MW.  319 in 38Js and another 12 in 38Gs

It is safe to say that your primary ride in MW is the superb P-38J.  

You have a total of 43 deaths between the two P38 types that puts your P38 K/D at a very respectful 7.69.  This is really damned fine work.  Your playing style in MW is very smart, very intelligent and you rarely put yourself at serious risk of being shot down (smart flying).  Hence the high K/D.  Is the above assessment accurate?

That info does not tell you how I fly at all.

[Shuffler]

Um what part of I got 5 kills in one sortie (air to air) in a stuka did you not understand?  What part of I got 5 kills in one sortie in a hurricane (air to air) did you not understand. What part of I got 5 kills in a 110g (air to air) did you not understand?  Maybe I left out...I was not in vulch mode (no where near a base),  I was alone and nobody to run to.  I was also in an inferior ride to the p51's 109's and 190's that I shot down. 

Anything that you have to say is obvoiusly a troll so take you whines and run with them.

You added that later. So your saying if you have any kills and do not hold all the cards your running of actually going to fight?

[Shuffler]

It matters not if you get 352 kills without dying, if you strike fear in the hearts of noobs in the virtual sky, fly dora the beguiler very quickly hither and yon, mithicly flip turn your vaunted twin tailed devil...

in spite of anything you do or do not do in this game...

you are dweebs.

every last one of you.

haha exactly

[Shuffler]

I see the best sticks have a high kill to sortie not kill to death. Anyone can stick to vulching or be timid to protect kill to death. But to go up every sortie and get kills is a harder accomplishment

I've seen many spawn on runway and tower. To go to a different field. I've done the same many times. I never think about it affecting ones score or stats.

I think they need a stat on fun. Nothing else much matters.

[Guppy35]

The best sticks are the guys who have fun every time up and give any and all comers a fight regardless of the odds

You can talk numbers all you want, but there are too many other things that go into it as well.  In the end as long as you are having fun, who the heck cares.

One of the things you notice if you last long enough is there are waves of the latest and greatest cartoon fighter pilots.  They come in, work their tails off to be the bestest, tell everyone about it, burn out and move on.  Those that stick around figure out sooner then later it's gotta remain fun, or they burn out too.