Author Topic: ar234 question  (Read 53338 times)

Offline Butcher

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #120 on: June 12, 2012, 10:29:02 AM »
It's funny to see the same guys who won't land gear down or fly with realism arguing about airplane realism in the sim.

There is a fine line between landing a video game airplane on a runway with gears up, then trying to model that airplane unrealistically.

You should be able to figure that out on your own.
JG 52

Offline icepac

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #121 on: June 12, 2012, 10:53:42 AM »
I see you guys fly and I see you post.


Offline Babalonian

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #122 on: June 12, 2012, 01:54:32 PM »
P-51D never carried bombs and rockets at the same time and do in Aces High.

Dont see them being removed any time soon.


I believe they did, just not 1000lbers + Rockets, but I also believe they did carry DTs and rockets ...
-Babalon
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Offline Butcher

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #123 on: June 12, 2012, 02:22:32 PM »
I believe they did, just not 1000lbers + Rockets, but I also believe they did carry DTs and rockets ...

Big difference between DT's and rockets and 1,000lb bombs and rockets.

Loadout should allow DT's and Rockets, or Bombs only and no rockets.
JG 52

Offline Babalonian

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #124 on: June 12, 2012, 04:15:11 PM »
Big difference between DT's and rockets and 1,000lb bombs and rockets.

Loadout should allow DT's and Rockets, or Bombs only and no rockets.


Well, again there is some detective work needed here before such hasty decisions/conclusions.  In AH our P51s only have 75gal DTs I believe, for a combined total of 150gal.  Just like 500lb bombs + rocket loadouts, these seem realistic.  However, P51s in WWII also used 150gal DTs, for a total of 300gal.  If these larger DTs were used with rockets, it would still not justify a fictional loadout of 1000lb bombs + rockets, but it wouldn't work against the arguement like you (and many others) feel the 75gal DTs do (that "they're a big difference").
-Babalon
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #125 on: June 12, 2012, 06:58:13 PM »
Some weights:

75gal combat tanks installed and serviced - 1040lb
150gal combat tanks installed and serviced - 2060lb
110gal combat tanks installed and serviced - 1460lb
165gal combat tanks installed and serviced - 2246lb

Does anyone have a load plan for the P-51D/K?

Offline Charge

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #126 on: June 13, 2012, 05:57:16 AM »
"I believe they did, just not 1000lbers + Rockets, but I also believe they did carry DTs and rockets ..."

Anybody have a pic of P-51 with rockets and DTs?

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Offline Babalonian

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #127 on: June 13, 2012, 05:45:37 PM »













« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 06:03:39 PM by Babalonian »
-Babalon
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Offline MiloMorai

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #128 on: June 13, 2012, 07:17:37 PM »
P-51 #24 is from WW2. I suspect the others are post WW2 and Korea.

Offline Ack-Ack

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #129 on: June 13, 2012, 07:49:47 PM »
The last picture with the pilot leaning against the wing, the unit insignia pretty much describes Runstang pilots.  :devil

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Offline MK-84

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #130 on: June 13, 2012, 08:12:19 PM »
The last picture with the pilot leaning against the wing, the unit insignia pretty much describes Runstang pilots.  :devil

ack-ack

 :rofl   

Oh that's so inappropriate, lol

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #131 on: June 13, 2012, 08:13:32 PM »
The last picture with the pilot leaning against the wing, the unit insignia pretty much describes Runstang pilots.  :devil

ack-ack

Guatemalan Air Force which is a post WW2 photo.

Offline tunnelrat

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #132 on: June 15, 2012, 02:48:38 PM »
P-51Ds could carry either 10 rockets, or 6 rockets + bombs.

Sorry guys =(
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Offline lyric1

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #133 on: June 16, 2012, 11:24:23 AM »
Alright back on subject.

I found this video on the AR-234B. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9O_jcI4fQVw Around the 29 minute mark of the film a pilot by the name of Erich K Sommer talks about the periscope on the AR-234. This pilot flew what was the first ever jet recon missions in combat. He did them over Normandy on D-Day. He also has in his hands what I believe is the RF2B rearward looking periscope & he explains the views as to what he could see behind him. He also was the man who came up with the idea of putting the periscope on the AR-234.

It would have looked like this on his aircraft.



His description of his view behind him was just like this ME-110 periscope view he makes no mention of the reticule lines though . I established earlier in this thread the reticule lines would have been there though just like on the 110 photo.



His aircraft only had cameras & never was meant for anything other than photo recon work. If his plane was used for dive bombing he would have had the PVB1 periscope like this one below that worked with the BZA bombing computer.



Just as a side note Erich K Sommers is the same pilot that strapped a forward facing gun pod on his AR-234B & used it as a day fighter. His exploits are also listed earlier in this thread in regards to the forward facing guns.



Now the Smithsonian AR-234B is fitted with the PVB1 periscope this is the one that could be flipped to a forward view for dive bombing & rearward for looking behind. I don't have a description yet that is 100% as to what that those views are like.

Now I found this article about the rear guns supposedly on the B model & of course I say it is wrong it should be in regards to the C model. However it is the first article I have found that confirms what I believed was the method the C model would have used to shoot with the rear guns. As described in this thread.


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,325508.30.html



Since I have photos of both C models with the rear facing guns & since only two C models were made with rear facing guns & no other model. Question arises what periscope did they use  :headscratch:

The above article said the PV1B was used for rear firing on the supposed B model then why do the C models that have rear guns have what appears to be neither?


What is listed for the periscope in the second photo I think is wrong. It looks like it is a base of a PV1B with no forward or rearward ability? Very hard to shoot backwards at something that has no rear view at all.





This photo has no periscope at all? Even harder to shoot back at some one behind you.



So what gives? If the B model had a proven system for firing rearwards as some would argue,why would the only AR-234'S that have photographic evidence of any model with rear guns have no periscopes at all?

This little blip on line b) about the C model static gun test's may be the answer.



Looks to me they gave up because they could not come up with a viable system with the periscope.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 11:42:04 AM by lyric1 »

Offline Babalonian

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Re: ar234 question
« Reply #134 on: June 18, 2012, 05:27:36 PM »
No production series Ar234 had rearward firing guns I thought was concluded already in this thread....


The last picture with the pilot leaning against the wing, the unit insignia pretty much describes Runstang pilots.  :devil

ack-ack

Nobody has ever said the Guatemalans don't have a good sence of humor.  :aok


Guatemalan Air Force which is a post WW2 photo.

Someone caught it. 


Morai, are these similar to what you're looking for?  I'll need to dig for a specific Load or Loading Plan.  Apologies for duplicate or irrelevant stuff.











These last two I believe are a very broad compilations from multiple sources of data



« Last Edit: June 18, 2012, 05:34:22 PM by Babalonian »
-Babalon
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Wow, you guys need help.