Is this what Hitech wants?

[moot]

But to simply not want to equal out the field on all three sides because its better to create a super horde to hide in is not healthy for the game and rather old.

One would think after all these years of complaining, that there are no good fights anymore because everyone is hiding in hoards. That no one tries to understand why 'Hoard Hunting" has not become an Aces High trophy sport. Why do only a "few" find the hoards to be the weak prey they are while so many avoid them?

Most of todays maps are too big to win the war so we doodle around for weeks running bases and hiding from each other in the ack. The only viable "Force" to compete against "is" each countries "HOARD". But, the hoards avoid each other religiously while those aformentioned "few" harvest them if they are online. The rest of us in each country tag along with the biggest conga line on the map to get risk free pickings. We all share in this "sin"........

POTW spends an inordinat amount of time hunting the bish borg hoard. But, we are only at most 12 guys at a time chasing up to 30 borglings. Sometimes we bust their base sneaks. Sometimes we don't. Sometimes we are busy taking their feilds or the rooks feilds or hunting the rooks hoard or defending a feild...etc...etc...

Our squad made a decision a few years back. The only viable force in the arena is the hoard. If we want to fight we hunt hoards. If we want to pick a fight we attack one of their bases untill their hoard shows up or the base is ours. All in All we get to fight alot. With this logic if all you want to do is logon and fight alot....well we are very happy with the game.

Other wise, this same post in various permutations over many years has been presented to Hitech in the hopes he will agree to your reasoning and forcabely dictate limitations to the unwashed boorish majority mass of paying customers to make your sensabilites happy against their will.

Lordy sounds like a mini Wisconsin.....

This post doesn't clearly detail how all roads lead to hording.

Jumping to (my) conclusion: hording will continue not for the reasons you imply, but so long as players feel the need to fly with numbers to compensate for their lack of ... skill.  It's a dirty word but the thing it refers to is real, above and beyond any smack talk connotation. 
A couple of things get lost in these discussions, incl:
1) saying you can just find another fight if you see a horde: totally unrealistic.  The consequence of that is an arena where everyone runs out of sight unless they have numbers. It just encourages more hordes and discourages simple small numbers fights "like the good ol days". But (my personal beef with it) mostly it implies the horde shouldn't have any initiative to realize it's a horde and that it's basically the other outnumbered guys' fault if there's no actual combat going on. 
2) Air combat with our WWII warbirds isn't just random flying about like brownian motion with the occasional gun solution or (more common) everyone flying around pretty randomly till everyone (cause everyone's doing the same random aimless things) spots an opportunity and rushes in together to claim that single kill trophy.  That's not really air combat, that's just a swarm diluting the actual tactical substance of the encounter.

What AH needs is more players with a good grasp of at least the basics of dogfighting.  They don't have to be constantly be flying like KOTH winning cream of the crop; don't bother with that straw man.  But if they did have those minimum skills, the large majority of players could team up in much smaller groups and you'd get much better air combat quality.  Inevitably there'd be a fair chunk of players that'd still like to one-up the enemy numbers-wise, but at least the fights they'd get in would look like real combat instead of random elements shaken in a can.. where they act like right now: totally timid flying with nothing near any commitment or engagement, and only actually doing something when the situation's at the other extreme - where their target's 100% vulnerable and incapable of fighting back, at which point they're literally falling over themselves trying to land hits.


TLDR  you can't have dogfighting air combat from untrained players

[oTRALFZo]

What AH needs is more players with a good grasp of at least the basics of dogfighting. 

Agreed, but with the surge of the "plug and play" gamers, unless you make the basics of dogfighting mandatory before approaching the MAs, most will never take the time to learn.

[The Fugitive]

This post doesn't clearly detail how all roads lead to hording.

Jumping to (my) conclusion: hording will continue not for the reasons you imply, but so long as players feel the need to fly with numbers to compensate for their lack of ... skill.  It's a dirty word but the thing it refers to is real, above and beyond any smack talk connotation. 
A couple of things get lost in these discussions, incl:
1) saying you can just find another fight if you see a horde: totally unrealistic.  The consequence of that is an arena where everyone runs out of sight unless they have numbers. It just encourages more hordes and discourages simple small numbers fights "like the good ol days". But (my personal beef with it) mostly it implies the horde shouldn't have any initiative to realize it's a horde and that it's basically the other outnumbered guys' fault if there's no actual combat going on. 
2) Air combat with our WWII warbirds isn't just random flying about like brownian motion with the occasional gun solution or (more common) everyone flying around pretty randomly till everyone (cause everyone's doing the same random aimless things) spots an opportunity and rushes in together to claim that single kill trophy.  That's not really air combat, that's just a swarm diluting the actual tactical substance of the encounter.

What AH needs is more players with a good grasp of at least the basics of dogfighting.  They don't have to be constantly be flying like KOTH winning cream of the crop; don't bother with that straw man.  But if they did have those minimum skills, the large majority of players could team up in much smaller groups and you'd get much better air combat quality.  Inevitably there'd be a fair chunk of players that'd still like to one-up the enemy numbers-wise, but at least the fights they'd get in would look like real combat instead of random elements shaken in a can.. where they act like right now: totally timid flying with nothing near any commitment or engagement, and only actually doing something when the situation's at the other extreme - where their target's 100% vulnerable and incapable of fighting back, at which point they're literally falling over themselves trying to land hits.


TLDR  you can't have dogfighting air combat from untrained players

And what perpetuates this is as the new players join the game they of course join the hordes for protection and thus only LEARN horde tactics.

[bustr]

I don't need to detail the road to hoarding. You are using this opening statement to leverage the venue to describe the majority of paying players as less than acceptable to your tastes. This is how you have always described the unwashed masses in Aces High. What we have is what we have. Make lemonade with it or buy depends and chase blue haired ladies in a retirement home.

Whatever the unwashed masses want to do is thier $14.95. What you want Hitech to do is proxy for your desires to control their conduct.

These posts end up being the same. An infered supplication for the future of the game to Hitech. Via long, scholorly, and convuluted dialouge that Hitech step in and force the ignorant unwashed masses to play this game the correct way. How, by externaly forcing conduct norms upon them because you are somehow better able to see the truth of these arcane matters since gee golly....isn't it obvious.... you are capable of articulating it with such clairity over the herd of intellectual bovinae you dispise in the game so much.

What a novel concept Hitech has. All customers are equal because everyones $14.95 is exactly the same. Allow the customer to seek his own level of fun within a basic framework of common simple personal conduct rules.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Seems to work very well for us bovinae where ever it's practiced.

[Dadsguns]

....... What you want Hitech to do is proxy for your desires to control their conduct.

...............

You could not be more off the mark with that statement as far as I am concerned.

[moot]

I don't need to detail the road to hoarding. You are using this opening statement to leverage the venue to describe the majority of paying players as less than acceptable to your tastes.

Mischaracterization and I have to say I don't know what your problem is.  For a while now almost all your posts read like someone peed in your flakes.  Anything I say that dares touch on the plain down to earth fact (or why is there a trainer corps? An Official Trainer Corps) that most players just don't have the basic (and really, basic is already enough to do a crap load) air combat skills they ought to have, will be turned into some elitist rant.
In fact that's snobbish itself, and perpetuates the urban legend that there's something unattainable about quality dogfighting skills.

Lighten up.

I don't need to detail the road to hoarding.

No but then the assertion is unsubstantiated IE not credible

You are using this opening statement to leverage the venue to describe the majority of paying players as less than acceptable to your tastes.

 What??

This is how you have always described the unwashed masses in Aces High.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

What we have is what we have.

Ok then.  Let's shut down the trainers.  The AH Wiki.  All the supporting material for players to do anything that could change "what we have"

Make lemonade with it or buy depends and chase blue haired ladies in a retirement home.  Whatever the unwashed masses want to do is thier $14.95.

total non sequitur

What you want Hitech to do is proxy for your desires to control their conduct.

Guess again miss cleo, nothing nearly so tyranical. Unless wishing players would have the dogfighting vocabulary to string together some proper air combat sentences, no matter how basic, is malicious somehow

These posts end up being the same. An infered supplication for the future of the game to Hitech.

Fire and brimstone read between the lines of a simple comment on the big picture

Via long, scholorly, and convuluted dialouge

 Do you actually read what you write?  And I'm not talking about the spelling

that Hitech step in and force the ignorant unwashed masses to play this game the correct way.

Show me where I said that.  You can't.  Because I never said that.  Unless you mean my arguing that players ought to be in touch with the basic building blocks of the game they're playing.  IOW trainers and the how-to of air combat.

forcing conduct norms upon them because you are somehow better able to see the truth of these arcane matters

No forcing, only reasoning and that only on this forum and always open to counter arguments, or where did I do anything except fly with my squad in the actual game that the reasoning's concerned with? ...What a delirious accusation.
Nothing arcane about anything in AH, especially not air combat tactics and dynamics...

you are capable of articulating it with such clairity over the herd of intellectual bovinae you dispise in the game so much.

Or how to insult, misquote, and kiss bellybutton in a single sentence

We hold these truths [gargarism]
us bovinae

Nothing but an uninformed and inaccurate petty rant.  It's no wonder these threads get locked.

[moot]

dp

[moot]

Agreed, but with the surge of the "plug and play" gamers, unless you make the basics of dogfighting mandatory before approaching the MAs, most will never take the time to learn.

Like I suggested up-thread, the only way I see to reach out to a majority of the players is to automate a streamlined take on the basics of dogfighting.  Use the AI (from Combat Tour, not sure what the name was) to give players a way to simply and quickly practice a variety of air combat situations. E.G. aiming, proper timing of scissors, singling out throttle management in some specific situation (e.g. when you need to hold back the throttle coming down from a minimum speed maneuver while saddled up really close to target, so you don't overshoot), etc, till these basic things become second nature and players aren't paying for their proper execution with almost all of their attention.  Attention that ought to be mainly on maintaining SA, etc.

Some of the most basic ones, like gunnery or scissors or keeping formation (basic navigation or combat "formation" like loose deuce basics), are things that AI could make really easy to practice over and over.  All these things together, in a format where you just click on your clipboard to start the lesson over, or edit the exact time you want to start the maneuvering/aiming/etc sequence, or adjust the AI difficulty, would really help a lot of players, I think.   

[PFactorDave]

I don't know which is worse, the hoarding and ganging in LW, or the really lame nobody wants to fight AT ALL in MW.

[oTRALFZo]

Like I suggested up-thread, the only way I see to reach out to a majority of the players is to automate a streamlined take on the basics of dogfighting.  Use the AI (from Combat Tour, not sure what the name was) to give players a way to simply and quickly practice a variety of air combat situations. E.G. aiming, proper timing of scissors, singling out throttle management in some specific situation (e.g. when you need to hold back the throttle coming down from a minimum speed maneuver while saddled up really close to target, so you don't overshoot), etc, till these basic things become second nature and players aren't paying for their proper execution with almost all of their attention.  Attention that ought to be mainly on maintaining SA, etc.

Some of the most basic ones, like gunnery or scissors or keeping formation (basic navigation or combat "formation" like loose deuce basics), are things that AI could make really easy to practice over and over.  All these things together, in a format where you just click on your clipboard to start the lesson over, or edit the exact time you want to start the maneuvering/aiming/etc sequence, or adjust the AI difficulty, would really help a lot of players, I think.   

This is true. Though I think you will still get a percentage that insist on flying in the security of the horde just from ego alone. Some dont take to loosing here. Others just accept it as a learning tool.

I have to agree with your theory because when I first came here, I loved flying with the horde. ONly way I would be safe was in #s. Just by someone taking the time to show me how to trim your plane during flight has dramaticly improved my gameplay. Once players get somewhat of a decent confidence level within themselves, they are more prone to challenge themselves greater.

If HTC really wants to improve his game, give incentive for people to take chances by rewarding them if they come out victorious while being the underdog in situations. localized perk value or name in lights I would think off the top of my head would be incentive enough to make people fight more on a personal level

[GNucks]

Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?



If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.

[moot]

This is true. Though I think you will still get a percentage that insist on flying in the security of the horde just from ego alone.

Yes but the important thing IMO is that they would have those air combat tools in their inventory.

give incentive for people to take chances by rewarding them if they come out victorious while being the underdog in situations. localized perk value

It sure sounds good. There might be negative consequences to this but I can't see em

or name in lights I would think off the top of my head would be incentive enough to make people fight more on a personal level

If you mean rewarding safe landing more, that would also encourage timid flying.  Localized perk value and something like the AI training tools I described could already be enough.

[EskimoJoe]

Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?

(Image removed from quote.)

If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.

I've seen far more Bish hoards than Rook hoards.
Something involving kettles and pots comes to mind...

[MrRiplEy[H]]

I've seen far more Bish hoards than Rook hoards.
Something involving kettles and pots comes to mind...

Heh I was just thinking the same. When someone says horde I automatically think bish for some reason. I mean there are nits too but a horde from them is like wth just happened?

[oTRALFZo]

Bish just got assaulted by the entire Rook Air Force at 135 tonight. Should I start a new thread about it or will this one do?

(Image removed from quote.)

If you look out your left window you'll see a cloud of Rook iron blowing the crap out of a Bish airfield. If you weren't such a picktard you'd actually be in icon distance and maybe even within draw distance of the dozens of more aircraft ib that are indicated on the rada- they just took out the radar. Those pesky gremlins.

So you advocate hordeing when its you on the end. Its "fun" right?

What exactly are you preaching here?