Japan Earthquake News

[Melvin]

I bumped it with the contaminated drinking water header in hopes that someone could update us on the situation.

But nevermind all that, you brainiacs are too busy trying to impress us with your rapier wit and un-disputed knowledge of plumbing.

If you have no current information to add, please stfu.

[Lepape2]

Okay then, Here

and Here

[Melvin]

Okay then, Here

and Here

  Yeah, you got me good.

Sorry I came off a little harsh there.

[Babalonian]

Now now Melvin, just because I grew up in a region that educated itself and respected earthquakes while the rest of the country was cracking jokes and calling us stupid for choosing to live with them doesn't mean I can't have a little fun when the tides are turned.  Besides your question is quite broad while also a no-brainer.  If the shaking was strong enough to break some pipes in the ground, then pipes have been broken and depending on severity lots of them and in lots of different places.  Contaminated with radiation?... how much water in japan gets piped within a criticaly short distance to the nuclear plant?... heck if the plumbing was knocked out that kept the reactors cool and if a 50' pipeline carrying the entire country's drinkable water supply ran within many miles of that (nevermind close enough to possibley be contaminated with radiation)...

You want some facts, here ya go:  Those who were stocked up and prepared with water in their emergency kits are now starting to run out.  Those who weren't prepared have already bought up all the stock that the stores had.  Other imediate regions not as severly effected (still have safe and running water) will likely be diverting all their stocks to where it is needed by those who don't have any safe or running water.  By now the government and disaster organizations should have supply routes in place to distribute fresh stocks as well as locations where clean and safe water is being distributed to those who can bring a jug and fill it.  If these are lacking in Japan, taughted as the most prepared and organized to handle these tpye of disasters, then something terrible has gone wrong somewhere and likely you're gonna see some heads roll. 

If you can look past the media sensationalism and discover that aid is being distributed, supplies are getting in and being distributed, and the military has every available trained personel and available piece of water purification equipment in place throughout the worst impacted regions, then things are going according to plan.

Lesson of today - splooge $5 and make sure you got some fresh jugs stocked up somewhere in your place.  Every few years splooge another $5 and rotate out the old stock with the new.  Even if you have a home filtering device, these can be a problem and most will not work for many reasons after an emergency, even the ones with their own resevoir as it's hit-or-miss if it's installed with a backflow preventor for in the event water pressure is lost (unless you use a gravity-powered style pitcher filters - those are great to have in a home emergency kit).

Edit - And I'm not saying stupid people don't live here in California anyways.  As long as they're not ripping up the undamaged street pipes in Japan to get at the sitting water in them, like some did in LA during northridge, I'm not too worried and confident they'll come through.

[Sundowner]

Possible containment breach in unit #3. I hope this is not the case but fear it is.

Regards,
Sun

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/24/death-toll-japan-quake-tsunami-tops-10000/

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/25/japan.nuclear.reactors/index.html?hpt=T1

Dangerous breach suspected at Japanese nuke plant
Published March 24, 2011


TOKYO –  A suspected breach in the reactor core at one unit of a stricken Fukushima nuclear plant could mean more serious radioactive contamination, Japanese officials said Friday, revealing what may prove a major setback in the mission to bring the leaking plant under control.

The uncertain situation halted work Friday at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex, where dozens had been working feverishly to stop the overheated plant from leaking dangerous radiation, officials said.

Suspicions of a possible breach were raised when two workers waded into water 10,000 more radiactive than normal and suffered skin burns, the Nuclear and Industry Safety Agency said.

However, though damage cannot be ruled out, the cause remained unclear, spokesman Hidehiko Nishiyama told reporters.

"It is possible there may be damage somewhere in the reactor," he said, adding later that there was no data suggesting there were any cracks and that a leak in the plumbing or the vents could be to blame....."

[EskimoJoe]

"Extreme radiation detected at Fukushima plant no. 2"

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/27_12.html

This is not good..

[Sundowner]

TEPCO is now backpeddling on the figures....I dont believe them.

When it gets so hot that life cannot be sustained near one of units then that reactor will be in "freefall" with no one to tend it.

Left alone, it will follow the laws of physics to a predictable outcome.

This could leave the ENTIRE Fukushima site w/5 more reactors (each of them with spent rod holding pools) unattended and inaccessible.
 
Plan C is now in order....concrete, cement and boric acid.

Regards,
Sun

Emergency Workers Flee Nuclear Plant After Report of Radioactivity Spike
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/03/27/workers-grapple-radioactive-water-troubled-japan-nuclear-plant/

TOKYO -- Emergency workers struggling to pump contaminated water from Japan's stricken nuclear complex fled from one of the troubled reactors Sunday after reporting a huge increase in radioactivity -- a spike that officials later apologetically said was inaccurate.

The apology came after employees fled the complex's Unit 2 reactor when a reading showed radiation levels had reached 10 million times higher than normal in the reactor's cooling system. Officials said they were so high that the worker taking the measurements had withdrawn before taking a second reading.

On Sunday night, though, plant operators said that while the water was contaminated with radiation, the extremely high reading was a mistake.

"The number is not credible," said Tokyo Electric Power Co. spokesman Takashi Kurita. "We are very sorry."

He said officials were taking another sample to get accurate levels, but did not know when the results would be announced.

The situation came as officials acknowledged there was radioactive water in all four of the Fukushima Dai-ichi complex's most troubled reactors, and as airborne radiation in Unit 2 measured 1,000 millisieverts per hour -- four times the limit deemed safe by the government, Kurita said.

Officials say they still don't know where the radioactive water is coming from, though government spokesman Yukio Edano has said some is "almost certainly" seeping from a cracked reactor core in one of the units.

While the discovery of the high radiation levels -- and the evacuation of workers from one reactor unit -- again delayed efforts to bring the deeply troubled complex under control, Edano insisted the situation had partially stabilized.....

Edited for incorrect link--Sun

[MrRiplEy[H]]

Regarding the water pollution, most fresh water usually comes from open fresh water pools. Lakes, rivers etc. which are mechanically filtered and chemically sanitized. In some cases ground water is used but it can't serve any larger communities normally. In some cases the water is filtered using 'artificial ground water' where lake water is pumped on sand soil and then the filtered water pumped for processing. In even rarer cases reverse osmosis is used in which case even sea water is suitable.

Since the water originates from open pools, radiation can very easily get into them just through regular rain. The filtering doesn't have the ability to remove radiactivity, it was never even designed for that. It requires no broken pipes whatsoever.

[MarineUS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOfy1CoxrMo&feature=aso

http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/1rDrOc/www.tampabay.com/blogs/alleyes/content/earthquake-tsunami-japan - pictures

[warhed]

Regarding the water pollution, most fresh water usually comes from open fresh water pools. Lakes, rivers etc. which are mechanically filtered and chemically sanitized. In some cases ground water is used but it can't serve any larger communities normally. In some cases the water is filtered using 'artificial ground water' where lake water is pumped on sand soil and then the filtered water pumped for processing. In even rarer cases reverse osmosis is used in which case even sea water is suitable.

Since the water originates from open pools, radiation can very easily get into them just through regular rain. The filtering doesn't have the ability to remove radiactivity, it was never even designed for that. It requires no broken pipes whatsoever.

At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated.  I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system.  We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.

[Wolfala]

At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated.  I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system.  We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.

War,

Whats the next plan of attack for these guys?

[AAJagerX]

At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated.  I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system.  We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.

The only way I could think of a closed system getting contaminated would be a coil getting cracked or corroded to the point of failing.  Even then, the system pressure would keep most of the contaminants out.  A more likely possibility would be a failed chiller tube, but that's extremely rare.

[warhed]

War,

Whats the next plan of attack for these guys?

In simple terms, they need to regain integrity of containment systems, get the cooling systems back in full operation, and I imagine, start removing fuel, unburned and spent fuel, and probably seal these reactors up for good.
A modern nuclear power plant is completely at the mercy of procedure, there is literally a written procedure for plugging a refridgerator into an outlet in a breakroom.
The events here have thrown everything off as far as procedure.  At our plant, the public's safety would be the first responsibility, and that is acheived through integrity of safety systems, even at the cost of continued operation.
But in this worse case scenario, there is no proper procedure.  Until they can lower radiation and contamination levels near the reactor, the cleanup will be delayed.
I've been on the refueling floor (top floor around the reactor and spent fuel pool) when large amounts of airborn contamination has been released, that was as chaotic and high tensed as I've seen in a plant.  I can't imagine how stressful the situation would be to the operations teams in the Japanese plants.  We are very anal about conamination, it slows and inhibits work.  They have to get a control on that situation before major cleanup and repair can continue.

[MarineUS]

Magnitude-6.5 quake off Japan; small tsunami alert
4 hours ago

NEW YORK — A magnitude-6.5 earthquake shook eastern Japan off the quake-ravaged coast on Monday morning, the U.S. Geological Survey reported, prompting Japan to issue a tsunami alert.

There were no immediate reports of damage or injuries, but the Japan Meteorological Agency announced that a tsunami of up to 1.6 feet (a half meter) may wash into Miyagi Prefecture.

The tsunami alert was localized to Japan. The U.S. Pacific Tsunami Warning Center said no wave was expected in Hawaii or on the U.S. west coast.

The alert was prompted by a quake that the U.S. Geological Survey measured at 7:23 a.m. Monday Japan time (2223 GMT Sunday) near the east coast of Honshu.

The USGS said the quake was 3.7 miles (5.9 kilometers) deep.

A magnitude-9 quake off Japan's northeast coast on March 11 triggered a tsunami that barreled onshore, triggering a humanitarian disaster that is thought to have killed about 18,000 people.

[MrRiplEy[H]]

At my plant, a similar design, our cooling water is in a closed system, it never has a chance to get contaminated.  I can't think of one nuclear plant that doesn't use a closed cooling water system.  We never release water that has been contaminated into the environment.

Sorry but I was talking about fresh water reservoirs which are used to supply drinking water. In Japan radiation got vented to air -> moves to any open source of water via air.