Author Topic: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help  (Read 4070 times)

Offline clerick

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2011, 04:09:49 AM »
Why would torque affect turn radius? I thought torque would only affect roll rate? Does the p38's heavier load and therefore better zoom climb make up for the fact that the 109k can climb like crazy with wep? I really like to rope a dope and I'm also finding the 109k more forgiving because I can tuck tail and run easier if I mess up unlike the p38. I do like the guns on the p38 better though.

Most planes, maybe all but the 38, will be at a disadvantage while turning to one direction.  I admittedly have a horrible memory on this but, IIRC, a vast majority of the planes in here will have a harder time turning to the right because the torque affects.  I may have misspoke when I said affected turn radius.  What it definitely WILL do is take a torque-monster like the K4 and cause a nasty spin if the pilot gets it slow enough and stalls out.  This affect is even more pronounced if they are in WEP. Give it a try offline or in the DA. Try pulling hard into a stall and see what happens.

The 38's weight can be a great equalizer in the vertical.  While there are some better climbing planes out there, with it's superior momentum it will perform very well in the vertical against these planes. In a long sustained climb, after the initial benefit of its greater momentum has dissipated, planes like the K4 will power away from it.  Picture two people at the top of a valley.  One weights twice as much as the other, but he's also weaker.  They both start off on bikes down the hill and when they get to the bottom they start coasting, allowing momentum to carry them up the other side. The heavy guy will coast farther up the hill, BUT since he isn't as strong the other guy will be able to out climb him after they are done coasting. Now add in the stability of the 38 and it's counter rotating props and you have a plane that, when flown right, will match or exceed the better climbers in the vertical and when slow. Like the two guys on the bikes, if the big guy is able to slow to a stop AND keep the bike upright he will have another small advantage over the small guy who just tips over when his bike gets too slow.

Feel free to tuck tail and run in a 38 if you need to.  Ride the edge of compression, or if i have to I'll blow right into it and use the method i mentioned earlier to get out again. Many of the planes that will follow you into a dive like that will not compress as easily but, as you will learn, their elevator and/or aileron authority gets very poor or they risk stress damage trying to pull out if they aren't careful.

I'm by no means an expert, i die more often in a 38 then I live (mostly because i loves me a good furball).  My solution for the last few tours has been to fly other planes a lot more so i can learn what they do better and what they do worse in comparison to the 38.  I'm convinced that the only way to be truly successful in a 38 is to have very good ACM and know the other planes as well as you know yours.

I'm sure someone will jump in here and correct/clarify anything I've said, but this last part is crucial.

Offline FLS

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2011, 10:44:11 AM »
Why would torque affect turn radius? I thought torque would only affect roll rate? Does the p38's heavier load and therefore better zoom climb make up for the fact that the 109k can climb like crazy with wep? I really like to rope a dope and I'm also finding the 109k more forgiving because I can tuck tail and run easier if I mess up unlike the p38. I do like the guns on the p38 better though.

I expect he's thinking of a spiral climb not a flat turn.

Also remember that, all else being equal, heavier does not make for a better zoom climb, heavier just lets you dive faster.

Offline Hoff

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2011, 02:35:51 PM »
I expect he's thinking of a spiral climb not a flat turn.

Also remember that, all else being equal, heavier does not make for a better zoom climb, heavier just lets you dive faster.

Wouldn't that be heavier is better zoom climb, not dive faster? As an engineer, the thought of something being heavier falling faster than something lighter doesn't make sense to me.

Offline FLS

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2011, 04:25:13 PM »
Wouldn't that be heavier is better zoom climb, not dive faster? As an engineer, the thought of something being heavier falling faster than something lighter doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't greater mass have a greater gravitational force?

Offline Hoff

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2011, 04:26:28 PM »
F=ma so yes it would have a greater force, but the acceleration would remain the same regardless of mass/weight.

Offline FLS

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2011, 04:30:53 PM »
So the acceleration is the same, the force is greater due to the mass, and in this case the force is thrust so the thrust overcoming drag is greater in the heavier aircraft?

Offline Hoff

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2011, 04:33:35 PM »
Ah, yea that makes sense now, but if the game model is that accurate, does it also take into account surface area? While a p38 might weigh more than a 109k, it most certainly has nearly double the surface area exposed to air drag.

Offline FLS

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2011, 04:59:37 PM »
Ah, yea that makes sense now, but if the game model is that accurate, does it also take into account surface area? While a p38 might weigh more than a 109k, it most certainly has nearly double the surface area exposed to air drag.

As far as I know profile drag, induced drag, and drag co-efficients are modeled along with altitude air density.


Offline Traveler

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2011, 05:22:58 PM »
Other than ordinance, what advantage does the p38 have over the 109k? According to http://gonzoville.com/ahcharts/index.php the 109k is better in every aspect, so my question is, what does the p38 do better?

Kill the 109.
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Offline MaSonZ

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2011, 05:30:11 PM »
As far as I know profile drag, induced drag, and drag co-efficients are modeled along with altitude air density.


would have to agree... had a B29 up to 30k...would hardly budge in a different directionm as oppsed to the thicker air at lower alts.

back on topic. It seems you have a thing for the 109K4 and the P38. Sticking to one would probably be best for a beginner, but if you enjoy both planes (albeit both havign a significantly larger learning curve), have at it and fly em both. I'm not a 10 year vet at the game like many posting, and while expierence normally gives better advice, it comes down to what you enjoy flying i feel.  :salute
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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2011, 05:34:49 PM »
I've watched your film and read the posts and even flew with you at a base defence, I'm in the film.  I've flown with you several times now.  I've seen other P38 pilots offer to wing up, you don't, I've seen many people give you check 6 calls, I've never seen you give one.  That film that I'm in with you. I noticed that at several points you stop the pursuite.  It may be lack of SA on your part.  The NiKi was able to reverse on you and the P51 didn't pull that many G's  You say you like to BnZ, but you attempt to do it from 100 feet.  Takes to long to climb I think was your reasoning.  Well, you pay the price.  
You may find it helpful to actually fly with someone you can learn a lot by watching people make mistakes.  You can also have a lot of fun winging up with other P38 drivers or wing up with anyone.  Just don't go along for the ride, give a 6 call once in a while and by all means get a mic.
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Offline Hoff

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2011, 05:45:13 PM »
I've watched your film and read the posts and even flew with you at a base defence, I'm in the film.  I've flown with you several times now.  I've seen other P38 pilots offer to wing up, you don't, I've seen many people give you check 6 calls, I've never seen you give one.  That film that I'm in with you. I noticed that at several points you stop the pursuite.  It may be lack of SA on your part.  The NiKi was able to reverse on you and the P51 didn't pull that many G's  You say you like to BnZ, but you attempt to do it from 100 feet.  Takes to long to climb I think was your reasoning.  Well, you pay the price.  
You may find it helpful to actually fly with someone you can learn a lot by watching people make mistakes.  You can also have a lot of fun winging up with other P38 drivers or wing up with anyone.  Just don't go along for the ride, give a 6 call once in a while and by all means get a mic.

I sense a lot of hostility for some reason. I have yet to see anyone offer to wing up with me in game and every time I log in I'm sure to check for people who have replied in this post offering to wing up, but haven't seen any on yet. I don't do check 6 calls because people are usually already aware or someone else has already called it. Besides, I'm more focused on my flying and improving that. Once I feel comfortable with myself, I'll start giving out check 6 calls. While we're on that topic, I really don't find check 6 calls very useful most of the time. I'd say 1/20 times I don't already know there is someone coming in on me, all the other times it's just yelling into my ears what I already see.

Offline Hoff

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2011, 10:14:48 PM »
Update: It seems like the only people flying during the times that I play are flying p51s, 109ks, f4us, and la7s. I might have to succumb and fly a faster plane because all they do is make a pass or two and then run away when I fly the p38.

Offline DREDIOCK

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2011, 08:53:51 AM »
I sense a lot of hostility for some reason. I have yet to see anyone offer to wing up with me in game and every time I log in I'm sure to check for people who have replied in this post offering to wing up, but haven't seen any on yet. I don't do check 6 calls because people are usually already aware or someone else has already called it. Besides, I'm more focused on my flying and improving that. Once I feel comfortable with myself, I'll start giving out check 6 calls. While we're on that topic, I really don't find check 6 calls very useful most of the time. I'd say 1/20 times I don't already know there is someone coming in on me, all the other times it's just yelling into my ears what I already see.


Whether you wing up or not is up to you. But as a friendly word of advise.
Its better to get or give a check 6 call when not needed then to not get or give one when it is.

Trust me you will find both giving and receiving them very useful the longer you are here


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Offline Traveler

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Re: Rookie Pilot Seeking Help
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2011, 04:30:40 PM »
I sense a lot of hostility for some reason. I have yet to see anyone offer to wing up with me in game and every time I log in I'm sure to check for people who have replied in this post offering to wing up, but haven't seen any on yet. I don't do check 6 calls because people are usually already aware or someone else has already called it. Besides, I'm more focused on my flying and improving that. Once I feel comfortable with myself, I'll start giving out check 6 calls. While we're on that topic, I really don't find check 6 calls very useful most of the time. I'd say 1/20 times I don't already know there is someone coming in on me, all the other times it's just yelling into my ears what I already see.

I think I sent you a private messge the day you started this thread.  In it I invited you to fly with the 113th Lucky Strikes , a P38 squad.   I offered that you can wing up with us any time.  I also gave you the details for our squad night.  I also broadcasted that invite to all our members to keep an eye  out for you and told you to just come up on VOX 113 and check us out.

I know that when I saw you I asked if you wanted to wing up several times and received no reply , perhaps you were AFK .  Maybe we can wing up next time, who knows.  You may enjoy our wiki site, lots of film of  P38's shooting down Every kind of aircraft you can think of.  check it out.  There are both films an AH viewer film.
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