Spit 8 vs Ki

[jododger]

All that said, I am wondering if there is ANY metric in the current score system that has much value in judging skill?  Seems like they can all be manipulated to some degree or another.

YES, Respect.
The people we fight against are the best judge of ones ability.

I say everyone put their big girl panties on and fight!

[waystin2]

In a nut shell I'm saying K/D means jackdoodlysquat   



JUGgler

Hey it's another case of Way agreeing with Juggler!

[Gman]

Ink:

funny spit 5 has 5 kills on me, I haven't killed one yet this tour,

Those were all you and me(Tundra) having those KI84 vs SpitV fights that one night.  I and I get killed because of you a couple times, I had remembered the score being 5-2, but you just didn't get the CREDIT for those kills, somebody else may have done most damage.

I think that the Spit V is the one Spit that is VERY hard to kill in a KI, which is why I fly it when I meet up with Ki's.

[ink]

Ink:
Those were all you and me(Tundra) having those KI84 vs SpitV fights that one night.  I and I get killed because of you a couple times, I had remembered the score being 5-2, but you just didn't get the CREDIT for those kills, somebody else may have done most damage.

I think that the Spit V is the one Spit that is VERY hard to kill in a KI, which is why I fly it when I meet up with Ki's.

well that just means your friendlies killed me before I got the kill....   I do remember your name but cant remember the fights   I do remember getting into it with a 5 and thinking that the guy flew awesomely, but ya the spit 5 is definitely a more capable plane against the KI

[Gman]

Ya, I recall that as well , you gave me quite flattering remarks on my Spit V pilotage, which should be that good as I spent a year in the middle 2000's trying to pretend I was Leviathn, haha.

Also for the record you are easily the most dangerous KI84 pilot I've run into in the Spit V, with possibly a tie going to Bruv when he flew it for that tour.

<S>

[ink]

Ya, I recall that as well , you gave me quite flattering remarks on my Spit V pilotage, which should be that good as I spent a year in the middle 2000's trying to pretend I was Leviathn, haha.

Also for the record you are easily the most dangerous KI84 pilot I've run into in the Spit V, with possibly a tie going to Bruv when he flew it for that tour.

<S>

no matter what I always try to give credit were it is due, even if someone uses "tactics" I don't agree with--Not saying you did at all...but say if I out maneuver someone then they run away, but come back and "pick" me, if it was a good shot ill say "good shot"  on the same hand if someone is totally being a tard ill be the first to call him out on it    Ive always been one to tell it how I see it, even if its detrimental to me.

now when I see spit 5's I get as aggressive as I can,im sure somewhere down the line ill run into another spit5 and just be vicious with them...they better blame you not me


 

[Anodizer]

I'd take the Frank over any Spitfire any day just for WEP alone..  3 minutes WEP in the Frank, but it only takes 1/2 the time to recharge..  So a minute or so and you're good to go..  Most Spit peelots will obliviously follow you up in a left hand spiral climb..  They won't be able to hang with you (only works up to 10 or 11K), they'll run out of WEP, they'll stall, you roll over and take 'em out..  Very easy, very effective.. 

It's all about fighting to your strengths..  And there are many things the Ki-84 does better than just about any Spitfire..  The fire rate of the Ho-5 is unmatched(20mm buzzsaw).. Definitely has the roll advantage over any spit except for the Spit Mk 16..  I'm mainly a 38 stick (don't fly much anymore as real life has been getting in the way), but I dig the Frank a lot and fly it for its similarities in handling to the P-38.. 
 
On a final note: Use of trim is QUITE effective on the Frank..  I've taken it past 450 trimmed out properly, didn't lose parts, and had marginal control if the ride..

My opinion of course.. 

[MachFly]

I'd take the Frank over any Spitfire any day just for WEP alone..  3 minutes WEP in the Frank, but it only takes 1/2 the time to recharge..  So a minute or so and you're good to go..  Most Spit peelots will obliviously follow you up in a left hand spiral climb..  They won't be able to hang with you (only works up to 10 or 11K), they'll run out of WEP, they'll stall, you roll over and take 'em out..  Very easy, very effective.. 

It's all about fighting to your strengths..  And there are many things the Ki-84 does better than just about any Spitfire..  The fire rate of the Ho-5 is unmatched(20mm buzzsaw).. Definitely has the roll advantage over any spit except for the Spit Mk 16..  I'm mainly a 38 stick (don't fly much anymore as real life has been getting in the way), but I dig the Frank a lot and fly it for its similarities in handling to the P-38.. 
 
On a final note: Use of trim is QUITE effective on the Frank..  I've taken it past 450 trimmed out properly, didn't lose parts, and had marginal control if the ride..

My opinion of course.. 

The maneuver you described would not work with a Spitfire as the Spitfire has a greater climb rate. The WEP on Ki84 would not give you any advantage as the Spitfire is more powerful and can maintain WEP for a longer period of time, so if he does not get to you while both WEPs are on, he'll defiantly get you when you loose your WEP and you wont have time to recharge it.

The rate of fire is indeed greater on the Ki-84, but a single 20mm round from a Hispano is more powerful than a Ho-5. I don't know which gun exactly is better, but you can not say that Ho-5 is better just because of the rate of fire.

I don't remember the roll rate on the ki at low speeds so I can't compare it.

[moot]

Ki 84 WEP isn't 3min but 90sec.  45sec cool-off.

The wep comparisons aren't really on solid ground.. They work on the assumption that both pilots will use wep.  And I don't know if that can be taken for granted at all.  A pilot that modulates WEP use to the max will get a lot more time before running out, vice one that simply flicks it on when the fight starts and leaves it on till it runs out.  The difference in WEP cycle timing between 84 and VIII (or 84 and pretty much anything else) are such that IMO it breaks down into two main categories: short fights where one of the two dies quickly, and protracted fights where the 84 will have to manage his WEP use to best fit his maneuvering.

Ho-5 and Hisp. II ROFs are 14 rps and 10 rps respectively, and cartridge powers are 11 and 20 resp., so unless their respective synchronization are biased to the Ho-5's advantage, the Hispano ought to be more potent on a burst basis -- a total math hunch, no calcs done.

IIRC the 84 has a noticeably better roll rate although not quite as much down at 200ias and lower.  The 84 also has noticeably less mushy nose to contend with.

[MachFly]

Ho-5 and Hisp. II ROFs are 14 rps and 10 rps respectively, and cartridge powers are 11 and 20 resp., so unless their respective synchronization are biased to the Ho-5's advantage, the Hispano ought to be more potent on a burst basis -- a total math hunch, no calcs done.

I did not have the numbers 

[moot]

Those numbers are from Tony Williams' tables.. I don't know if they're for synchronized ROF or not.

[MachFly]

Here is the info that was tested in AH

RPM:

Made a test in AH, timed how long would it take to empty the cannons on the Spitfire and Ki-84.

Spifire	240 rounds	11.3 seconds	636RPM
Ki-84	300 rounds	11.3 seconds	796RPM

Surprisingly both took exactly the same amount of time.

Projectile Strength:

Aces High Stats (damage)

Japan    20mm    Type 99 Mk I   HE   3.42
Japan    20mm    Type 99 Mk II   HE   3.85
Japan    20mm    Ho-5            HE   3.35

[moot]

You had the prop running for the top trials?
Projectile strength IIRC is against objects, IE does not account for projectile speed.

[MachFly]

What deferents does the prop make? None of the canons fire though the prop.
The test was done only on the canons, not the guns.

[moot]

Am I confusing the 84's cannons with the Ki 61s that are on the cowl?  - I did.