So heres whats wrong with the WWI...

[FLS]

I wonder if this ties up with the notion that AH has some sort of Yaw Damper running in the background.

Sid AH just has a flight model. I expect you've noticed that the Camel requires left rudder for coordinating both left and right turns which indicates that yaw and torque are properly modeled.

BnZ if you're aware of how precession works then why do you expect it to increase a spin? If a pitch rotation gives you yaw then what do you expect to see from a yaw rotation?

[Vinkman]

Okay, those who believe that the WWI combat is just inherently unpopular are dead wrong IMO.

Thought up a way to explain whats wrong here...

Imagine a WWII arena with exactly 4 planes. These planes will be the 109 F4, the 190 A-5, the P-40B, and the B-26. Think this arena would hold people's attention very long or be very fun? Yet this imagined limited WWII plane set and relative stack up of strengths almost exactly mirrors what the WWI arena is right now.

Maybe the problem is that WWI combat, while not worse, isn't BETTER. Is it worth investing all that time and money in re-creating the WWII arena depth and complexity in WWI format? It seems to me you'd end up right back where you already are in WWII.

[FLS]

... It seems to me you'd end up right back where you already are in WWII.

That's a reason not to do it? Maybe the Rise of Flight crowd would like a decent flight model and a server that can accommodate hundreds of people.

[Citabria]

havent tried RoF. is it not well modelled in the flght modelling department?

it sure looks pretty.

[BnZs]

Sid AH just has a flight model. I expect you've noticed that the Camel requires left rudder for coordinating both left and right turns which indicates that yaw and torque are properly modeled.

BnZ if you're aware of how precession works then why do you expect it to increase a spin? If a pitch rotation gives you yaw then what do you expect to see from a yaw rotation?

Spinning to the right should put the nose down, but you are missing the point. It does not want to begin rotating in the first place. Are the cautions about new pilots turning to the right wrong? I can't get this sucker to spin *trying*.

[mechanic]

havent tried RoF. is it not well modelled in the flght modelling department?

it sure looks pretty.

Very well modelled. Even to the point where starting the camel's engine on the ground produces a vibrating and shaking of the whole airframe due to the gyro.

RoF is by far the best modelled WWI game on the market, imo.

[FLS]

I can spin it but yawing right puts the nose down and putting the nose down is generally how you stop a spin.

Any new AH pilots turning the Camel hard to the right are going to have problems and should be cautioned.

Bat you wouldn't notice precession standing still, you see it in response to pitch and yaw rotations.

[Imowface]

I flew the camel once in tour 13, and smoked 3 Dr1's in a row, I dont know what the problem with it is in here

[pervert]

I can spin it but yawing right puts the nose down and putting the nose down is generally how you stop a spin.

Any new AH pilots turning the Camel hard to the right are going to have problems and should be cautioned.

Bat you wouldn't notice precession standing still, you see it in response to pitch and yaw rotations.

I don't see torque as a factor in the F1's turns tbh nor do I have to use rudder to correct or co ordinate a turn.

[Slate]

   The WWI arena was a test bed for the Advancement of the WWII damage model. It's not that they left the WWI arena stagnate just that it's not a priority. Players had requested a WWI arena but after the thrill wore off the population dwindled. Should HTC invest a lot of resources with a chance of no return?
 
   I Vote for a full time Arena 51. Talk about leveling the playing field!

 

[pervert]

Perhaps off topic one thing I've always wondered is how fuel affects the centre of gravity when maneuvering or not in level flight? How is this modelled? Should it de stabilise an aircraft? Would a full tank provide more stability? How did they deal with this in RL?

[Imowface]

you know pervert, I have never even thought of what the effects of fuel sloshing around in the tank could have on a plane in game, I am interested to hear an answer to this aswell

[BnZs]

Any new AH pilots turning the Camel hard to the right are going to have problems and should be cautioned.

Uh, no. There are no problems at all in that regard. And its not some vague "have problems" new pilots were warned about, its entering a spin.

Post a video of the Camel spinning. The closest I can get is a slo-mo rotation to the left while the bird does its odd flat fall.


You will defend all flight models in AH to the death as accurate, until they are changed, at which point you will defend the new improved FM to the death, won't you?

[BnZs]

Actually, I tried the LW MA after spending alot of time in the WWI and it made me realize something-WWII air combat is fundamentally boring.

Sure, there are alot of plane types to fly. But basically, they are all running around at ridiculous speed picking. Having enough firepower to damage/kill from a split second opportunity at whatever angle makes the whole thing abit arbitrary and stupid. In WWI, even someone "picking" you has to generally "fight" you abit (maneuver with you and lay in a good burst). If the guns had more dispersion in WWI so closing to 50-100 yards was really nessecary to have a prayer of a kill, would be even better.

  The WWI arena was a test bed for the Advancement of the WWII damage model. It's not that they left the WWI arena stagnate just that it's not a priority. Players had requested a WWI arena but after the thrill wore off the population dwindled. Should HTC invest a lot of resources with a chance of no return?
 
   I Vote for a full time Arena 51. Talk about leveling the playing field!

[pervert]

you know pervert, I have never even thought of what the effects of fuel sloshing around in the tank could have on a plane in game, I am interested to hear an answer to this aswell

I'm stabbing in the dark here tbh but I'd say if it was a big issue there would be some form of baffles to restrict how much fluid could move at the same time? I do know that in WW1 it was simply a tank though and wondered if the movement of a large amount of liquid as a whole would destabilise a plane like the camel

from wiki

"The Camel owed both its extreme manoeuvrability and its difficult handling characteristics to the placement of the engine, pilot, guns and fuel tank (some 90% of the weight of the craft) within the front seven feet of the aircraft"



As you can see it is pretty much a big tank or 2 tanks to be precise, the same would probably hold true for the oil tank, thats a lot of liquid moving around.

Another thing I thought the other night was that for a plane with so much weight in the nose the F1 really wants to do bugger all with it, a lot of slow nose over attempts amount to squat the d7 on the other hand will have the nose drop over quite readily on vertical moves.

Yet another quote from wiki

"The Camel soon gained an unfortunate reputation with student pilots. The Clerget engine was particularly sensitive to fuel mixture control, and incorrect settings often caused the engine to choke and cut out during take-off. Many crashed due to mishandling on take-off when a full fuel tank affected the centre of gravity."