Author Topic: Are there any simple cars left?  (Read 2946 times)

Offline dedalos

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8052
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #45 on: April 20, 2011, 03:55:30 PM »
Check out this Tuning setup. http://www.dynamicefi.com/   Ive been running it on mt 383 stroker and boy you could get a GREAT TUNE . Mines in a 1988 Suburban. 22 MPH Highway ans 15 - 16 City. 350 HP . Ive surprised many Newer trucks with the performance.



That 22MPH would surprise any one  :neener:
Quote from: 2bighorn on December 15, 2010 at 03:46:18 PM
Dedalos pretty much ruined DA.

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26936
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2011, 03:59:24 PM »
Check out this Tuning setup. http://www.dynamicefi.com/   Ive been running it on mt 383 stroker and boy you could get a GREAT TUNE . Mines in a 1988 Suburban. 22 MPH Highway ans 15 - 16 City. 350 HP . Ive surprised many Newer trucks with the performance.

(Image removed from quote.)

The new Duramax Diesels are 397 hp and 765 tq :D
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6882
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2011, 04:32:25 PM »
I feel the chrysler and GM ecus to be the most advanced ECUs but they are hampered by inferior components or assembly methods.

I can pull a pretty detailed datalist on my carbured 80s GM station wagon.

Offline kamori

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 849
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2011, 04:44:16 PM »
That 22MPH would surprise any one  :neener:


LOL  MPG

Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2011, 04:47:43 PM »
I feel the chrysler and GM ecus to be the most advanced ECUs but they are hampered by inferior components or assembly methods.

I can pull a pretty detailed datalist on my carbured 80s GM station wagon.

being able to pull datastream doesn't make a more advanced system. it helps create a PHD system more than anything.

ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline kamori

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 849
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #50 on: April 20, 2011, 04:47:58 PM »
I feel the chrysler and GM ecus to be the most advanced ECUs but they are hampered by inferior components or assembly methods.

I can pull a pretty detailed datalist on my carbured 80s GM station wagon.

Once the TBI came about Domestic engine life jumped up considerably due to better fuel mixtures.  14.7:1 a 128 BLM is the target. Something a Carb cant compensate for Like temp, weather, humidity, Barometric pressure, etc.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 04:49:33 PM by kamori »

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26936
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #51 on: April 20, 2011, 04:48:02 PM »
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6882
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #52 on: April 20, 2011, 05:09:22 PM »
being able to pull datastream doesn't make a more advanced system. it helps create a PHD system more than anything.



As general manager of Blue Streak's ECU testing and rebuilding facility, I repaired and tested all makes ECU's and spent plenty of time on EEC IV ecus as well as writing test routines for our car simulators.

If you ever bought or sent in an ECU for testing at Autozone, Bennet, BWP, Standard, Pep Boys and most every other auto parts dealer that wasn't an A1 cardone unit, then it's about 75% likely that my facility rebuilt/tested that ecu.

If there were difficulties that more attention with a customer's ecu, then there is a 100% probability that I personally tested that ecu and either affected repairs myself or instructed one of our technicians on what proceedure to follow in order to best satisfy the customer.

I stand by my comments on GM and chrysler ecus being the most advanced though toyota and nissan are getting close to surpassing them as well as having superior build quality.


Offline CAP1

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 22287
      • The Axis Vs Allies Arena
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #53 on: April 20, 2011, 05:40:54 PM »
As general manager of Blue Streak's ECU testing and rebuilding facility, I repaired and tested all makes ECU's and spent plenty of time on EEC IV ecus as well as writing test routines for our car simulators.

If you ever bought or sent in an ECU for testing at Autozone, Bennet, BWP, Standard, Pep Boys and most every other auto parts dealer that wasn't an A1 cardone unit, then it's about 75% likely that my facility rebuilt/tested that ecu.

If there were difficulties that more attention with a customer's ecu, then there is a 100% probability that I personally tested that ecu and either affected repairs myself or instructed one of our technicians on what proceedure to follow in order to best satisfy the customer.

I stand by my comments on GM and chrysler ecus being the most advanced though toyota and nissan are getting close to surpassing them as well as having superior build quality.



NOW THE funny thing about that.......autozone, pep boys, etc.....they are the absolute worst to deal with for computers.

 i've replaced more chrysler computers(friggin LOVE the " this computer is specific to this model/year bs from the chrysler dealers) and gm computers than anything.
 i really loved the old replacing the chip.....dam....what the hell was it called again?....the chip on the gm computers, because it had been updated.

 yet the ford computers have(at least since eec4) been able to "learn", whereas the gm computers only had what was on that chip.

THAT'S IT!! the PROM!!!

 what a friggin POS setup.

 do you not think there was a reason that they started using "piggyback" controllers on the fords way back in the 80's? or why you needed a reprogrammed ecu with that 70mm MAF, and 36# injectors? it was/is because if you did those with the stock ecu, it would learn, and readjust to what it was supposed to in the first place.

 now.....i admit you may know a lot more than me about some of these systems.......but i speak from 27 or so years of diagnosing these things. and to be honest, i actually liked doing the fords, because they were a challenge. i actually had to think to figure them out.

 look at how the obd2 systems work. they work just like a ford computer, 'cept they have datastream and standardized connectors now. and THAT messes up a lot of folks, who see 3 or 5 codes, and lose their minds looking for them.....because they don't think to figure out which code caused the other 4.

 in my time working on these things, i've lost to one car. it was a tempo, and i missed a bad ground(the orange wire). to this day, that is the only car i've ever lost to.  :aok

 oh yea........i always either buy my ecu's from the dealer(i've know idea who makes em for the different manufacturers though) or through napa, who uses cardone(or at least they used to.)


one more "oh yea"

 i didn't lose to that car either.....i learned from it, so technically speaking, it wasn't a loss.

 people that i used to ask for help way back then now call me when they need/want help.  :aok
« Last Edit: April 20, 2011, 06:00:40 PM by CAP1 »
ingame 1LTCAP
80th FS "Headhunters"
S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning in a Bottle)

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6882
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2011, 11:40:54 PM »
NOW THE funny thing about that.......autozone, pep boys, etc.....they are the absolute worst to deal with for computers.

 i've replaced more chrysler computers(friggin LOVE the " this computer is specific to this model/year bs from the chrysler dealers) and gm computers than anything.
 i really loved the old replacing the chip.....dam....what the hell was it called again?....the chip on the gm computers, because it had been updated.

 yet the ford computers have(at least since eec4) been able to "learn", whereas the gm computers only had what was on that chip.

THAT'S IT!! the PROM!!!

 what a friggin POS setup.

 do you not think there was a reason that they started using "piggyback" controllers on the fords way back in the 80's? or why you needed a reprogrammed ecu with that 70mm MAF, and 36# injectors? it was/is because if you did those with the stock ecu, it would learn, and readjust to what it was supposed to in the first place.

 now.....i admit you may know a lot more than me about some of these systems.......but i speak from 27 or so years of diagnosing these things. and to be honest, i actually liked doing the fords, because they were a challenge. i actually had to think to figure them out.

 look at how the obd2 systems work. they work just like a ford computer, 'cept they have datastream and standardized connectors now. and THAT messes up a lot of folks, who see 3 or 5 codes, and lose their minds looking for them.....because they don't think to figure out which code caused the other 4.

 in my time working on these things, i've lost to one car. it was a tempo, and i missed a bad ground(the orange wire). to this day, that is the only car i've ever lost to.  :aok

 oh yea........i always either buy my ecu's from the dealer(i've know idea who makes em for the different manufacturers though) or through napa, who uses cardone(or at least they used to.)


one more "oh yea"

 i didn't lose to that car either.....i learned from it, so technically speaking, it wasn't a loss.

 people that i used to ask for help way back then now call me when they need/want help.  :aok




None of the manufacturers rebuild thier own ecus they're all done by A1 cardone or blue streak.....maybe one more reman. company.

GM computers haven't had the prom since the mid 90s.............the same year that ford traded in the prom for flash memory.

Chrysler did so way earlier.

GM ecus are more diverse with the exact same hardware being able to run a V8 or a V6 and only the flash determined application........again this happened while ford was still using application specific ecus.

I had six thousand ford ecus at my disposal and millions of dollars worth or equipment that we used to test every single bit of functionality of an ecu.

EECIV was not a miracle ecu and EECV is far and away better.

If you want to discuss modifications, sure, ford had a connector on the back but the same type of interfacing was available on most other ecus....it just wasn't conveniently located on the rear.

I'm not trying to argue....I'm stating what I have learned of the state of engine management from the late 70s to current hardware.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 02:06:40 AM by icepac »

Offline 5PointOh

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2842
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #55 on: April 21, 2011, 12:12:51 AM »
After working with Honda R&D Americas for 9 years...I'd go out on a limb and say that Honda ECUs (For a passenger car to passenger car comparsion) may be some of the most advanced.  Its nice to see the American mfg finally catch on to the benefits of vct...

As far as stand alone units...I prefer F.A.S.T.  Very easy to use, nice interface.

http://www.fuelairspark.com

Coprhead
Wings of Terror
Mossie Student Driver

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6882
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #56 on: April 21, 2011, 02:25:53 AM »
Modified stock ecus are always a good bet up to a certain performance/functionality but you will spend a ton of money having someone wire up a stand-alone setup.

Once you start going with boost by gear or nitrous by gear, you have to go aftermarket

We've had good luck with Motec, Big Stuff3 (former developer of Accel's "DFI and "F.A.S.T."), and megasquirt.

« Last Edit: April 21, 2011, 02:31:05 AM by icepac »

Offline sntslilhlpr6601

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 254
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #57 on: April 21, 2011, 03:13:55 AM »
I don't know, it may be my age, but plugging a computer into the eec Tweecer in my 95 gt is a heck of a lot more simple than trying to tune a carb. I never even figured out how to tune the carb on my friggen dirt bike.  :D

Offline Stalwart

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #58 on: April 21, 2011, 03:17:02 AM »
And I see this sort of thing all of the time.  Power windows for example no longer have simple wiring going from one switch to another and then to the motor... oh no.. there is a computer module in EACH DOOR that controls the window motor.  When you press DOWN the switch tells the module you want the window to go down.  The driver's module communicates with the passenger module (using protocols not much different than computer networks) so if you want the passenger window down, the drivers switch tells the drivers module you want the passenger window down and the drivers module tells the passenger module and the passenger module lowers the window.

This is exactly the crap I'm dealing with in my minivan.  I've got a broken something that makes my driver side window stay up, and my passenger side window stay down.  I replaced the switches, and holy hell they're complicated bastards.  I guess they over engineer them like that so they can justify the outrageous prices I paid for them.  Anyways, after I installed the new switches it only fixed the passenger side.

Crap like this makes me long for a crank handle windows.

Offline Stalwart

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1055
Re: Are there any simple cars left?
« Reply #59 on: April 21, 2011, 03:25:19 AM »
Go find yourself a late 70's early 80's Chevy, GMC, Ford, or Dodge truck with a straight frame. Nothing else matters more than that. The body can be in decent shape, those trucks are easy to do body work on. Anyway you should be able to find one that's not running for several hundred bucks. Pull the motor and transmission and buy a Crate motor with a carb instead of fuel injection. Small V8 like the 302 or 305, maybe a straight or slant 6, bolt a new transmission to it and drop the works into the truck.

For around $8000 you can buy and restore an old truck like that. It will be rock solid, simple to work on yourself, you don't have to screw with emissions, and you have a cool ride when your done that will lst for years. It's cheaper than buying a new car that will only depreciate after driving off the lot, your "old" truck fully restored will increase in value as long as you take care of it.

My old neighbor does this all the time. Buys old trucks dirt cheap, restores them himself over 5-6 months and sells them for a nice proffit but he still dirves a 74 Ford F-250 crew cab 4X4 that he's owned for 15 years as his daily driver.

I'm not a rich guy with dough for a kit car or muscle car.
This idea, I like.