Tanking a whole new ball game

[Hoss Bog]

I'm not too crazy about taking the joystick control out of the GV's.  Yes I know, in real tanks you didn't control it with the joystick.  You also don't control them with the keyboard either.  I'm not sure what the powers that be thought that they were accomplishing but I'm sure they had the best intentions.  But for me it kind of sucks.  So now I need to control GV's with the keyboard, mouse and joystick.  At some point playability needs to play a part in the game and for me it took away a little bit of it.  The control of the GV's was just fine in my opinion.  I've played fighter ace since 1998 and came here when it closed.  It was a challenge and quite a learning curve to make the transition to this fine game and I'm happy to be here. I'm not too concerned about the learning curve of the new gunsights but I am concerned with the playability of the control system regarding the GV's.  I was wondering if there ever was a poll taken in regards changes made to the game before they take place or do you have a core group that makes the decisions for all others.  No disrespect intended I love this game but right now I'm a little disappointed in the direction taken in a few changes made in this last update.

[theNewB]

To me it's more restriced. AH was the only game (Sim if you will) with somewhat modeled positions. Battleground Europe is the next contender but that isn't the same. Having 3 positions, Commander, Gunner, AA gunner just makes it more like an arcade game, take World of Tanks, only differnce is a static camera for Aces High and a 4x external zoom in WoT.
I liked the fact I could drive looking through a vision slit, move my head up to simulate an open hatch, switch to commander while moving to get some SA, locate a target, go to driver stop and put it into neutral and head to the turret and engage my target. Now I can do all of that with less of the immersive things. I am a huge fan of the site system, all I ever wanted to see from day one. We will see more German armour fighting at ranges and Shermans getting in closer then they would before. Great no prob, but why remove the old system for this new one? Is GVing so hard that we have to make it like every other game? It even effected the bomber turrets. Got my bum handed to me cause my turret's spent more time swinging around then aquiring a good bead, and trying to stop the swinging only made it worse.

I'll get used to the bomber's but I doubt I'll spend time on the ground again.

I don't intend this to be a whine, but an opinion.

[AAJagerX]

I dont have a right clicky mouse, or a rolly thing...so im SOL on the full effect of it all for now. maybe I'll get to it when i get a normal mouse.

I don't use the mouse.  You can still use the joystick for the same functions aside from driving the GV.  The "C" and "V" buttons change the range in the sights that have that capability.  You're not missing out on anything.

[Reaper90]

Odd, someone asked to put the joystick back into GVing? I now GV with nothing but the joystick.....

[Nathan60]

you can still use the js to  aim the  turent  but  to  go and  turn you have to use a and d I dont see how  this  is  hard and  ruined the game that you can  have more mobilty should you wish  and  be  able to turn slightly and keep  your aim on a  tank  with the joystick should you choose  not  to  sit at extreme  ranges  and  fight a  static  tank  battle...flanking..yes please. I think to facilitate a  more fluid gv  battle is why you can no  longer zoom to 16 gazillion power (or whatever) but you can stil zoom a little with certian gvs. Just wish I could   increase eleveation on the  shermans like the  t34.

[CAP1]

What do you think, some major changes in how the game  of tank commander is changing
DHawk

my understanding is that rather than using your joystick to accelerate, deaccelerate, steer, aim(when in the gunners position) and the keyboard to shift gears, now you need to use the keyboard to do all of that, and the tanks have automatic transmissions?

 if i'm understanding it right, it would be the equilivent of steering your airplane completely by using the keyboard. if this is correct, then i am thankful i don't tank very often, and probably will not be any time soon.

 what would possess them to take such a step backwards like this?

[CAP1]

No way.  I will voice my support for each and every change HTC just made for the gv's.  I think they go a LONG way in making gv'ing fun and more like the real deal.

yea, 'cause tankers used keyboards  to steer their tanks.

[Bronk]

LMAO HT gives players more control over a gv  and they whine....pathetic.  You can now drive scan an area and fire....efficiently now.  Again many of you whiners are pathetic.

[CAP1]

LMAO HT gives players more control over a gv  and they whine....pathetic.  You can now drive scan an area and fire....efficiently now.  Again many of you whiners are pathetic.

mine wasn/'t a whine. it was an observation, based on what i see here.

 i never really had trouble efficiently driving/scanning the old way.

[badhorse]

Relax guys...

Just need to disable the mouse control..just need to figure things out..

If I can master this, I will be able to KILL DR7,  

How did you manage to disable the mouse control? Nothing I tried worked.

[Hoffman]

my understanding is that rather than using your joystick to accelerate, deaccelerate, steer, aim(when in the gunners position) and the keyboard to shift gears, now you need to use the keyboard to do all of that, and the tanks have automatic transmissions?

 if i'm understanding it right, it would be the equilivent of steering your airplane completely by using the keyboard. if this is correct, then i am thankful i don't tank very often, and probably will not be any time soon.

 what would possess them to take such a step backwards like this?

I like the changes, I think HT did an excellent job with the vehicle changes.  It now feels like I'm actually commanding a tank crew.  I cannot count the number of times where I would be in a situation where I wanted to inch forward, would have to switch to driver put it in 1st gear, push forward on the stick, the tank would jump forward, I'd have to switch to gunner, re-zoom, re-aquire my sight picture worry about bounce, make sure I've got my bearings rigth, locate target, switch to driver drop speed throw it into reverse , back to gunner, re-zoom re-aquire targetcalculate range, fire, and hope I hit the bugger at 3 Kilometers away.  Recieve return fire, switch to driver, throw the stick into full speed, switch to commander hatch in order to see where I'm going... and the damn tank stops and I get blown up because you had to hold it in reverse for at least 2-3 seconds in order for the damn tank to keep going in reverse when you switched to a different position.

The old way, as interesting as it could be, required an enormous amount of micro-management in order to effectively maneuver a tank throughout a battle.

The new method, requires me to focus on my target, my situational awareness, and not have to worry about shifting gears, pushing the stick forward or backwards, the damn tank jumping forward and back and screwing up my sight picture.  It's almost like I have an actual driver and I'm saying to him: "Ease her forward just a bit, little more, little more, okay stop, get ready to reverse.  "bang" Full reverse now!"  All the while actually being able to stay in the gunner's seat.

I'm also in love with the new gun sights.  The reason WW2 tanks fought at the ranges they fought at was because they were limited by their optics.  Remove that barrier and you have what we used to have, a Tiger sitting on a hill firing at targets 5, 10, sometimes even 15 kilometers away and getting kills on targets that in real life would have required a spotter, a radio, and a lot of coordination.

Now people will actually have to learn how to use their sights.

[CAP1]

I like the changes, I think HT did an excellent job with the vehicle changes.  It now feels like I'm actually commanding a tank crew.  I cannot count the number of times where I would be in a situation where I wanted to inch forward, would have to switch to driver put it in 1st gear, push forward on the stick, the tank would jump forward, I'd have to switch to gunner, re-zoom, re-aquire my sight picture worry about bounce, make sure I've got my bearings rigth, locate target, switch to driver drop speed throw it into reverse , back to gunner, re-zoom re-aquire targetcalculate range, fire, and hope I hit the bugger at 3 Kilometers away.  Recieve return fire, switch to driver, throw the stick into full speed, switch to commander hatch in order to see where I'm going... and the damn tank stops and I get blown up because you had to hold it in reverse for at least 2-3 seconds in order for the damn tank to keep going in reverse when you switched to a different position.

The old way, as interesting as it could be, required an enormous amount of micro-management in order to effectively maneuver a tank throughout a battle.

The new method, requires me to focus on my target, my situational awareness, and not have to worry about shifting gears, pushing the stick forward or backwards, the damn tank jumping forward and back and screwing up my sight picture.  It's almost like I have an actual driver and I'm saying to him: "Ease her forward just a bit, little more, little more, okay stop, get ready to reverse.  "bang" Full reverse now!"  All the while actually being able to stay in the gunner's seat.

I'm also in love with the new gun sights.  The reason WW2 tanks fought at the ranges they fought at was because they were limited by their optics.  Remove that barrier and you have what we used to have, a Tiger sitting on a hill firing at targets 5, 10, sometimes even 15 kilometers away and getting kills on targets that in real life would have required a spotter, a radio, and a lot of coordination.

Now people will actually have to learn how to use their sights.

well....you could've had someone join you.

 i did that with a squadmate back when i was in the hired guns. he drove, i gunned. it was pretty dam fun to be honest.

[Hoffman]

Well, unfortunately not everyone is in a squad, and not everyone can play at the convenience of a partner.  Such teamwork is really awesome when it happens and can be a great deal of fun.  But it isn't a constant, and that has to be factored into how the game plays.
What if my wingman lives in another country.  And during the afternoon when we're both on we have a blast at coordinated play and joined play.  But during the evening he's in bed because he has to go to work, and now I'm all alone and nobody else from the squad is on?  Do you design the game around having partners to drive and maneuver for you?  What if they're having a crabby day and don't want to log in?  Just how many people were partnered up in tanks at a time?  How many people even knew you could do that? 
I've been playing this game for 6 years now, every change HT has made has improved the game since I started playing.  There have been changes I don't particularly agree with (mainly terrain changes, and I know he has modeled every tree and every bush to look like the turret of a tank at range.  He does it on purpose to mess with me. I miss the old terrain where a tank stood out like a sore pinky in a thumb war.) But all the changes have improved the game in some way, and the ones I don't agree with have made me a better player through adaptation.

Why people are whining like a bunch of wow kiddies is beyond me.  Take 5 minutes, read up on the control changes, go offline or to the TA and practice with it.  Tape a note-card with the new controls to your monitor if you have to.

[moot]

well....you could've had someone join you.

 i did that with a squadmate back when i was in the hired guns. he drove, i gunned. it was pretty dam fun to be honest.

Aye that really was.  

[Knite]

I've said it in another thread or two, but I think last night was the most time I spent GV'ing in a LONG time and I enjoyed the heck out of it (after tweaking dead-zones in my joystick to stop turret drift).

I do happen to have a multi-button mouse with scroll wheel, so maybe that's why for me it felt better... It was really drive around with middle/ring/index fingers, find enemy, move middle finger to hit #2, use scrollwheel to range find (in Panzer), and left-click fire. Heck I've got enough buttons on my mouse I can speak on range easily too, but I know that's just gravy so to speak. The new control method I think is far more intuitive for PC players that play games OTHER than just Aces High, as mouse+kbd controls have been a staple of PC gaming since the beginning.

I do recognize that it'll be a heck of an adjustment to others who were used to the old method. The only people I don't feel bad for are the "super zoomers" that are limited now with the different tank optics and the "mouse cursor crosshair" folks.