the farce has lasted long enough...

[Debrody]

+1 Sir Nuke

[guncrasher]

assuming you had a clone flying a spit16, would you turnfight him in a pony for more than 360 degrees?

why not? will my ponyd  drop out of the sky if I do?

there are some really good spit16 dweebsters out there with them no matter what I do, I am dead.  but most people to put it mildly suck in the spit16.  ponyd with flaps should really keep up with it once the 16 lose their e.  or if they dont want to lose their e, conserve yours go above them then once they turn nail them from above.  there are so many things you can do to get a kill.

there are so many other planes that are flown regularly that outperform the spit16.  and many experienced players fly them more than the regular "spit 16 is better than the 8, because it has a higher number"  crowd.  what about the yak, the c205 both of these are flown and turn just like the spit16 at high speed, and yet no calls to perk them either.

you ever fought against lilmak and his infamous p47?  he should be perked  .

semp

[Vinkman]

the Spit XIV has many weaknesses, you just have to be skilled enough to take advantage of them.  

Your comment, "as it is modeled now" indicates you feel the flight model is incorrect in some fashion, care to show any data that the flight model is incorrect?

ack-ack

OK basic BBS protocol here. You're the third person that has claimed the Spit XVI has "many weekness" then failed to list them.  Please list them or this isn't much of a point. 

[Debrody]

Semp i bet youre a spit lover...
c205 has NO chance against the spixteen  nor the jak

[Noir]

why not? will my ponyd  drop out of the sky if I do?

It will with a nice stall  

why not? will my ponyd  drop out of the sky if I do?

what about the yak, the c205 both of these are flown and turn just like the spit16 at high speed, and yet no calls to perk them either.

maybe with some struggle but if the fight slows down you are dead meat.

[Noir]

OK basic BBS protocol here. You're the third person that has claimed the Spit XVI has "many weekness" then failed to list them.  Please list them or this isn't much of a point. 

Only weakness listed for now is the fragility of the wings (which are not made of wood btw), lack of extraordinary top speed at 10-15K (only 380mph or so  )

[Noir]

Sorry, I can't agree.  The P-51D is just as potent, if not more so, in this game. 

more efficient attacker for sure, considering its range, and loadout. In pure fighter role the 16 is better.

The fact that you like it and it is your baby doesn't excuse it from the discussion. 

I like all the planes, last time I flew a spit16 I was shocked by its performance, and sealed it away for the sake of not taking bad habits

It has far more kills and a better K/D ratio than the Spitfire Mk XVI every tour and you and not just hand wave that away.

I can explain that by the fact that people take spit16's for base defence, and P51's for attack. Also people that take P51's have the basics of energy fighting down most probably. No proof tho, just observation

For me it would be better if the Spitfire Mk XVI were perked, but I think it would be worse for the game.

you are the game too

[olds442]

-1 you know i always fly my spitz!!!!!!!!!!!!! you noobbzzzzzzzz farzzzzzzzzzzzz mezzzzzzz

[BnZs]

It has been many times and with the example of the C-Hog to show how a plane could unbalance the game play.  Seriously, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what one means by the term "unbalanced game play", especially if using an example of a plane that when first introduced did unbalance game play (which I believe is no longer the case with our increased plane set).  I'll say it again just like I said it you many times in the past, please show how the Spitfire XIV unbalances the game play like the C-Hog did when it was first introduced.  It's been years and a lot of us have been waiting for your answer and we're all starting to get old waiting.

ack-ack

Define the precise way in which the C-Hog unbalanced gameplay, please.

[BnZs]

Sorry, I can't agree.  The P-51D is just as potent, if not more so, in this game.  The fact that you like it and it is your baby doesn't excuse it from the discussion.  It has far more kills and a better K/D ratio than the Spitfire Mk XVI every tour and you and not just hand wave that away.

When I have looked at k/d numbers in the past, the P-51D and Spit were very close, so close I wouldn't be surprised if they change places in the standing some tours. Also, one can expect that an airplane which is often upped from a vulched field will have a lower k/d than one which is usually not upped for base defense, and is often flown in a very, uh, "conservative" manner.

Considering how often it is used by lemmings, and that it is 344mph airplane to the P-51's 368, the fact that the SpitXVI has a k/d about as good as the 51's every tour is actually pretty amazing and a testament to its effectiveness in the average MA player's hands.

The problem of using either popularity or k/d as a criteria has been discussed at length. By k/d, the P-38J is superior to the P-38L and most of the other rides in the MA. In contrast, by usage, the silver 38 is superior to its olive drab stablemate.   These numbers are subject to player whims and trends that have nothing to do with performance, and are thus meaningless.

For me it would be better if the Spitfire Mk XVI were perked, but I think it would be worse for the game.

Why would lightly perking one specific ride worsen for overall gameplay to any extent? In my view, not only would the game be better for you and and your Mosquito, but it would be a substantially better environment for a whole host of rides which are somewhat "middle of the road" along the speed/maneuverability spectrum which are currently out-run by the spit-horde, while also being ridiculously out-turned, out-climbed, and out-rolled by by that type, making the  not particularly viable in the LW MA. The Late War bnz speed demons everyone loves to hate, are, by contrast, not so much effected by the spixteen, they can just out-run it.

I cannot understand why it is considered such a travesty to use the perk system on fighter aircraft in the game. I don't GV much, but at least half the available tanks are currently perked to level the playing field, are they not? Hell, I would go along with lightly perking the bloody P-51D, even though I think that is ridiculous given that aircraft's all-around performance, if it also got the Spixteen a price tag.

[waystin2]

I thought this was a joke thread but seeing one of The Phew serious about this matter gives me double chuckles...

You were kidding right Nuke?

[Noir]

I thought this was a joke thread but seeing one of The Phew serious about this matter gives me double chuckles...

You were kidding right Nuke?

Being a member of the many doesn't necessary make me biased towards spits.

[waystin2]

Being a member of the many doesn't necessary make me biased towards spits.

So you were kidding?  All jokes aside, I agree that the Spit 16 is a powerhouse in a great pilots hands.  In average hands it can be managed easily enough by a better than average pilot such as yourself.  No need to perk it Sir.  There needs to be some perk free easier to fly planes in the plane set for newer pilots to fly, so leave it unperked.  My .02 cents

 

Way

[Karnak]

Why would lightly perking one specific ride worsen for overall gameplay to any extent?

Because new player retention would go down as the newbie players were shuffled off into less newbie friendly rides.  Period.


I recall once, years ago, flying about in a Mossie looking for prey between a couple of fields.  I encountered an La-5FN, engaged and, once in gun range, killed it in less than 5 seconds.  And again.  And again.  And again.  After the fourth kill I landed and went somewhere else.  The La-5FN player was not learning anything other than Mosquitos have really powerful guns.  He wasn't living long enough to learn anything about evasives or trying to go aggressive.  He was just dying.  Now, granted, this particular newbie could have been upping Spitfire Mk IXs (no Mk VIIIs or Mk XVIs back then) but was instead, for whatever reason, upping La-5FNs, but I do not wish to make the initial part of this game any harder on the new player than it already is.

FWIW, a competent La-5FN driver will eat a Mossie VI for lunch, pilots being remotely equal.

[RTHolmes]

10 perks for the XVI sounds ok which means say, 15 to 20 perks for the D pony.

how many perks would you make the LA7 and N1K under this new noobs dont get to fly competitive late war rides scheme?