Author Topic: KI-84  (Read 20871 times)

Offline ink

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KI-84
« on: June 29, 2011, 06:04:26 AM »
well I have been wanting to give back to AH, tried my hand at map making :O whoa mad time consuming, extremely difficult, major KUDOS to the map makers. :salute

so the next thing I think is skins...well here is my first attempt at skinning a plane.

all criticism's welcome

this particular plane is from the 58th Shimbu tai   flown by Chui toku Ueda






Offline B-17

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 06:15:04 AM »
Wow, Ink...she looks fantastic. I really mean it. The weathering on her is oustanding. Awesome job :salute

Offline Debrody

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 06:22:37 AM »
If your first skinning attempt is this...   i cant belive you  : )
Its awsome.
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Offline ink

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2011, 06:27:37 AM »
Wow, Ink...she looks fantastic. I really mean it. The weathering on her is oustanding. Awesome job :salute

thanx man

I cant really take credit for that so much, it was the default skin a lot of the weathering was on it, I did rework it some but, definitely not all, and with out that default skin I would not have been able to make it look like this.

If your first skinning attempt is this...   i cant belive you  : )
Its awsome.

thanx

Offline iron650

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2011, 07:09:26 AM »
The plane is excellent. Awesome first skinning attempt.  :salute

Offline STXAce8

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2011, 08:37:20 AM »
Looks great for the first time! But I would make the weathering more silver instead of that green.
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Offline Dragon Tamer

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2011, 08:56:32 AM »
It looks great but personaly, I think the weathering is a bit heavy.  Please don't change the look of the skin on my account, esspecialy if it's historicaly accurate.  Just stating my personal oppinion.

Offline Krusty

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2011, 09:25:03 AM »
Honestly, I don't think it looks that great. It looks like it's a nuclear fuel rod, glowing green.

I think you were intending to make that "metal" showing through, but I'm sorry I just can't get past "seafoam green".

I suspect this is because you simply tweaked the saturation and the tint to change colors on the default.

The chipped paint patterns are also exactly the same:

Compare:






That will have poor results every time. You really need to create your own layers. You'll need to do your own work and build upon the default, rather than just copy it.

So, my 2 cents (and I think I know a thing or two about skins) is to try harder.

Offline ink

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2011, 10:14:38 AM »
Honestly, I don't think it looks that great. It looks like it's a nuclear fuel rod, glowing green.

I think you were intending to make that "metal" showing through, but I'm sorry I just can't get past "seafoam green".

I suspect this is because you simply tweaked the saturation and the tint to change colors on the default.

The chipped paint patterns are also exactly the same:

Compare:

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)


That will have poor results every time. You really need to create your own layers. You'll need to do your own work and build upon the default, rather than just copy it.

So, my 2 cents (and I think I know a thing or two about skins) is to try harder.

well considering the skin I normally fly is yours, which is by far my favorite skin in ALL the plane set,  I am very interested in what you have to say when it comes to this...I did do layers, not quit the way you describe in your tutorial, I have been using the combo of GIMP/Photofiltre for many years, so I know a bit about that program that most just don't understand......if you think all I did was "tweak" the saturation well sorry you are wrong there, far more work then just that....also "seafoam" green I don't see it :headscratch:  you saying the area where the paint has peeled looks seafoam green ?   my monitor don't show it like that, I noticed someone else said that its green also....hmmmm

like  I said I cannot take credit for the weathering....I did mess with it a small bit only.

I do respect your opinion when it comes to skinning for sure, and I appreciate the input.

and thanx to every one else for their honest opinion this is what I need....I Love this game, and want to show my appreciation, this is about the only way I can do that.


Paul

Offline Krusty

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2011, 10:21:32 AM »
if you think all I did was "tweak" the saturation well sorry you are wrong there, far more work then just that....also "seafoam" green I don't see it :headscratch:  you saying the area where the paint has peeled looks seafoam green ?   my monitor don't show it like that, I noticed someone else said that its green also....hmmmm

Yes, that's the green.

I noticed you did cover up some of the tail area and paint over it (and a couple of other areas, flaps, etc), but most of the rest looks relatively untouched. You can see the original everything. It looks (at least to me, not knowing what you did) like you just took a layer and used "variations" on it, or changed the saturation/contrast/tint levels.

Perhaps it might help if you described what you mean when you refer to keeping the original weathering? You can't keep the weathering if you've done your own layers, as they would cover it up. That confuses me.

Offline ink

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2011, 12:04:09 PM »
Yes, that's the green.

I noticed you did cover up some of the tail area and paint over it (and a couple of other areas, flaps, etc), but most of the rest looks relatively untouched. You can see the original everything. It looks (at least to me, not knowing what you did) like you just took a layer and used "variations" on it, or changed the saturation/contrast/tint levels.

Perhaps it might help if you described what you mean when you refer to keeping the original weathering? You can't keep the weathering if you've done your own layers, as they would cover it up. That confuses me.

I used layers on certain parts of the skin to get rid of the arrow, to keep the red circles or should I say to bring the red circles back, I used clone tool to get the rivets back, dodge and burn tool,other tools that I cant recall, really just a lot of experimenting,  I also tweaked the colors to get it Brown.(I wanted a black skin, but no KI84's were black, yes I know some sources say their were black skins, but I am pretty sure they are wrong :()
as far as the weathering goes, I allowed it to show though the layers,  I was thinking about getting rid of it, seeings how this is a kamikaze plane and would not necessarily be around long enough to get weathered, but I did not, just because I think it looks better with the weathering....

they way you describe using layers is not the way I did it, when it comes to art work and using GIMP I do it different, I need to get it done in a reasonable amount of time with good results, I know this is not the "end" product, I am still experimenting with the many different ways of doing it, your "way" is definitely not the only way of getting it done, I am not saying your way is "wrong" just too damn time consuming for me.
  I only used 3 "layers" to build it up.

I could go in and "change" the weathering "pattern" but the default skin is so badass and looks awesome I decided to let it show,  I see now that was a mistake.

like my Tattoo's I have my own way of doing things, and I am sure in time I will master this, hell I had Tattooist's tell me I was "doing" it wrong, if I can create a tattoo so realistic that the guys dog tried to attack it...ya I think I should be able to get this down :D
yes his dog tried to attack it, best complement I ever got was from a dog :rofl



Offline EskimoJoe

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2011, 12:23:57 PM »
Ink.. I'd fly it  :aok

A suggestion - you can hit your enter key to put a line between image URLs, this (imho) helps with presentation by
putting a small space between images. Just my opinion though  :)
Put a +1 on your geekness atribute  :aok

Offline ink

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2011, 12:29:34 PM »
Ink.. I'd fly it  :aok

A suggestion - you can hit your enter key to put a line between image URLs, this (imho) helps with presentation by
putting a small space between images. Just my opinion though  :)

thank ya

never crossed my mind to do that....hehe


I'll have to remember that. :salute 

Offline Fencer51

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2011, 12:41:26 PM »
What Krusty is saying is that you modified the basic skin, and left alot of it as your skin.  We all reuse things such as wheels, props, gear struts and the interior colors most of the time.  But it looks like you just painted over the colors on the default skin and modified those areas leaving the rest of it the same.  Thats not how you should do it.
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Offline Krusty

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Re: KI-84
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2011, 12:49:51 PM »
(I wanted a black skin, but no KI84's were black, yes I know some sources say their were black skins, but I am pretty sure they are wrong :()
as far as the weathering goes, I allowed it to show though the layers,  I was thinking about getting rid of it, seeings how this is a kamikaze plane and would not necessarily be around long enough to get weathered, but I did not, just because I think it looks better with the weathering....

they way you describe using layers is not the way I did it, when it comes to art work and using GIMP I do it different, I need to get it done in a reasonable amount of time with good results, I know this is not the "end" product, I am still experimenting with the many different ways of doing it, your "way" is definitely not the only way of getting it done, I am not saying your way is "wrong" just too damn time consuming for me.
  I only used 3 "layers" to build it up.

I could go in and "change" the weathering "pattern" but the default skin is so badass and looks awesome I decided to let it show,  I see now that was a mistake.


I snipped just a few of your responses there.

1) You are right they were not black. However it was not a kamikaze plane. That was the thought when I did my Ki-84 skin, however it turns out with a bit more research the Ki-84s were too valuable to use for that purpose (and there were plenty of other older craft to do the job). These Ki-84s often escorted the kamikaze groups, but were the cover against US planes, rather than suicide pilots. They would have some weathering due simply to the heavy use and the weather and the quality of paint/primers in Japanese use.

2) I think I'm safe in saying that, while there are MANY different roads to take, yours is in fact the wrong one to take. You're not skinning a plane, or applying much actual paint. 3 layers? That's literally doing almost nothing. While you put effort into it, you really need to put some of your own effort in, rather than using 95% of the original. You need to paint your own parts, put on your own markings, etc. Even if you get creative with the mixing of details, with how you want to mimick what's on the default, you still need to do the work yourself. That's not subjective, that's just the right way to do it. You have to do it yourself. The first one is always daunting, but once you get over that uncertainty you'll find it's much easier than you thought it would be. Time consuming or not, that's how you do it. The thing about skins is there is no race. There is no time limit on it. If you only get so much done in a week, a month, a year, you just keep doing it when you have the free time. You don't need marathon sessions.

3) I mean this with no insult or ill will, simply as an attempt to help somebody get on the right path to figuring out how to skin....

The mistake was simply covering up part of the default. I'm not trying to be elitist nor to be snobbish or anything, but that's not skinning. Even if you make something look like something else that has already been done, or even if you want to do the exact same subject as somebody else, you have to do it. Otherwise it's like stealing somebody's work. I've heard one or two cases of that happening with AH skins in the past and the person copied was not happy at all.

Granted the default skins are there to use as a template, so it's a bit of a fine line, but I think if you want to work with skins you need to do much more than you have already. Work on just getting the solid colors in place, then work on the details. As you now the software that will help you greatly in figuring out how to do it. The "how" you do it is up to you, and this goes back to your subjective comments. It is subjective, and for the most part there is no wrong way as long as the results hold up (and as long as you didn't rip off somebody else's work). They just don't hold up here, and the effort isn't there.


I'm not picking on you, it's just not very good to try to skin that way. I wanted to comment on it to help (possibly).