AvA icon setting "poll" - in AvA forum

[Oldman731]

It's been proven beyond any doubt by countless people that full icons is far more realistic to show what the human eye can see in real life than no icons is. No icons is a farce used under the guise of elistism and inflated superiority.

Seriously, Krusty, when was the last time you tried to identify a WWII-size airplane from another airplane in real life?  It is not nearly as easy as you seem to think it is; all the mid-airs around the world's airports should be proof enough.

- oldman

[jimson]

Some of you may know this and if I am repeating information you already know I apologize.

You can set the icons to change depending on your altitude. The setting that does that is the 'enemylow icon range'. The enemylow icon range is tied to the radar altitude setting.

For example, you could have the icons set to 3k for both enemy and friendly, and the radar alt set to 500 feet.  Then you set the enemylow icon range to 1k.  As long as everyone is above 500' the icons will remain 3k, but the moment someone is below 500 feet (radar alt setting) the enemylow icon range kicks in and the enemy icon switches to 1k.

Hope that helps.

<S>

Interesting, so if enemylowicon range is set at 3k as well, the icons will stay the same regardless of alt?

[Vudu15]

It's been proven beyond any doubt by countless people that full icons is far more realistic to show what the human eye can see in real life than no icons is. No icons is a farce used under the guise of elistism and inflated superiority. Just look at any "no icons" argument and the only claims they can use to defend themselves are "you suck if you don't master flying with no icons"

It is neither a crutch nor a cheat nor is it unrealistic. The human eye sees a sh**load more than any computer monitor can display, ever. It sees it better, faster, with much easier reactions and motions.

The reason most shot-down pilots in WW2 never saw the enemy that shot them down was because they weren't looking, not because they were looking and could not see the enemy.

If the "no icons" folks are going to leave because icons get turned back on in the AvA, maybe they need to master actual fighting and manuvering rather than relying on "being lost" by the target at 100 yards. Maybe it's not a bad thing they want to quit over this petty artificially-inflated premise going away.

Not sure If you know this or not In real life it can be fairly hard to see an a/c almost on top of you. depending on any and all outside factors....

[Delirium]

Great now guys are quiting..
The icon lovers are a bit ignorant about icon settings.. They have not taken the time to learn or master the settings they are generally of the immediate gratification mentality and have not invested or-changed with technological advances in the flight siming world..

That is incredibly rude and insulting to everyone that may not agree with your point of view.

I want a better icon system, one that recognizes the shortcomings of the PC without making the icon a neon billboard that destroys the visual beauty of the game.

Agreed! My idea in the past was to use a dot that was underneath the aircraft that grew as distance lessened. This way, if you're hapazardly scanning the sky you could miss it but were less likely to do so as closer ranges. In addition, you could miss the dot if the bandit was flying low enough to get confused in the ground clutter.

Some happy medium has to be found between the 'neon billboard' (tm Dawger) and Stevie Wonder in the skies of Aces High.

[Wiley]

Can I ask you no icon guys a question?  How do you feel about the unrealistically wide field of view you get from your monitor versus real life and the advantage that gives you being able to look around your plane versus zooming in so you have a more realistic 1:1 view through your monitor?

Wiley.

[captain1ma]

Also just because somebody has a  plutonium or radioactive in their avatar doesn't mean they are all knowing...

goes for any other element of the periodic tables too! Only Skuzzy is all knowing!   

[Nr_RaVeN]

It's been proven beyond any doubt by countless people that full icons is far more realistic to show what the human eye can see in real life than no icons is. No icons is a farce used under the guise of elistism and inflated superiority. Just look at any "no icons" argument and the only claims they can use to defend themselves are "you suck if you don't master flying with no icons"

It is neither a crutch nor a cheat nor is it unrealistic. The human eye sees a sh**load more than any computer monitor can display, ever. It sees it better, faster, with much easier reactions and motions.

The reason most shot-down pilots in WW2 never saw the enemy that shot them down was because they weren't looking, not because they were looking and could not see the enemy.

If the "no icons" folks are going to leave because icons get turned back on in the AvA, maybe they need to master actual fighting and manuvering rather than relying on "being lost" by the target at 100 yards. (<<<That is elitism and inflated superiority at its best ) Maybe it's not a bad thing they want to quit over this petty artificially-inflated premise going away.

Bull!
one can Positively Id AC type in real life 400-1000 at best.. That's were Ac type is idenifialbe in AH.... test it... at 400-1000 with no icons on you can Id AC type just like real world. In real world your not going to id ac type beyond that ..  Mr k your just plane wrong... that is why no icons are more realistic and immersing, you guys are just looking for easy and instant gratification.you have no point of reference other than your limeted no icon flight time put in more time and your opinion will change..


I flew with against above mentioned mr K in the AVA... heck of a nice guy on coms btw... He seems to turn into Dr Mr hide on the BBS though..Anyway the second time I slapped him and his wing man  down he immediately when into that's why I hate no icons he said he couldn't see me...

I mean the guy could see my red dot heading at him on DAR and I saw him just fine, his DAR dot for one showed up.. and I could also see a black con coming my way even against the ground clutter because it was a 'moving' black dot.... its a no brain-er... .. I had to even let him shoot me down once so he wouldn't feel bad and leave. WTF I had the same settings as he did and I saw him :headscratch

Guys are threatened by the settings they are set in their ways and do not want to change, and some are unwilling to relearn something new. Instead they when things don't go their way and give up... walking off saying.... "this sucks  "

The entitlement instant gratification attitude  that is sweeping this generation is mind boggling....

Noboby is saying that no icons make you, elite, better or anything of the sort.

 No Icons  just makes a  dog fight feel way more exiting. Everything happens at a faster pace and by default its way more thrilling and AMC are 10X's more effective... your communication needs to be tip top and your wing tactics do as well to prevail.

I flew in the AVA last night with icons set at 2.4 and truthfully speaking only for myself not the staff To me it was a step backwards..

 But the guys are doing what they feel is best to grow the arena and they want to make it appeal to the MA crowed I think its a nobale effort because they are trying to please more guys.

 I just  think it kind of counters the spirit of the AVA in regard to realism and immersion... but they do mean well.. The majority of the staff enjoys Icons and it looks like that's the direction the arena will me moving at this point. Just not my cup of tea..
 
 That said others do like those settings and they are entitled to them they have plenty of servers to fly icons already icons dominate AH...

We should not criticise them for liking "icons on"  any more than they should criticise us for not liking "icons off" but generally if you say you like no icons the guys that want icons on attack you for it...

So far that's how it generally plays out in this comunity.

As all the other arenas are MA like and have icons on it would be nice to have at-least one arena that offered no icons to  give the ones that like no icons a place to fly. as it sits now its icons or the highway in AH there is not on single arena that allows no icons so it seems a bit of a one way street to me..

I don't think wanting one place to fly No icons is asking to much.  As it sits now The AH comunity has an attitude of only icons on and if you don't like it to bad as demonstrated in the fact that every arena has icons on as of now...

Be nice if we could have a No icon arena like early war AVA mid war ext. .......Just becouse some of us like no icons  it we are considered to be full of elistism and inflated superiority..

That is incredibly rude and insulting to everyone that may not agree with your point of view.

Right back at yea

[waystin2]

Correct me if I am wrong but there is a way to make everybody happy here.  Folks can turn off icons if they choose to, or leave them on if they want to.  Everybody is happy!

[Shane]

Correct me if I am wrong but there is a way to make everybody happy here.  Folks can turn off icons if they choose to, or leave them on if they want to.  Everybody is happy!

you're very correct in that icons are a toggable feature...

something the no-icon = immersion fellas conveniently continue to ignore - they always have because it's not so much about "immersion" as it is taking advantage of the no-icons to mitigate their own suckage.   

when asked to go no-icons all the way for both sides, high-pitched voices squeak in about "how can i give a check 6?"  my answer?  just like they did in the real show - holler over radio and hope they guy is listening amidst the radio chatter. radio comms = "immersion," right?

But what really gets me is how disparate icons (none for enemy and 1-3k for friendly - or some variation thereof where the friendly has an icon advantage over the enemy) often lead to the very things that the AvA has been held up as (and constantly shot down as being not).  This disparity results in both an unfair advantage to friendlies (easier to set up picks) and leads to ganging as a friendly wanders over to two distant dots but has to get within practical engaement range (about 3k) to positively identify what's going on and by that point it's "well, since I'm already here..."

icons or no icons i don't really care; i do care that whatever the settings are, they are the exact same for both.

ideally I'd like the "dot-con" concept, and I'd be fine with it being a constant size (for both sides... no range data - just dot/planetype for enemy and dot/alt-i... no range data, for friendly.

[Vudu15]

serious disadvantage there you can lose a guy easy behind a part of your canopy(and not regain vis till hes shooting) but he will only lose you for a few seconds unless he has a very large plate or something obscuring his view.

Makes it fun in AvA becuase you can acually sneak up on people sometimes with dot dar on.(no tracers is a plus)

[Nr_RaVeN]

you're very correct in that icons are a toggable feature...

something the no-icon = immersion fellas conveniently continue to ignore - they always have because it's not so much about "immersion" as it is taking advantage of the no-icons to mitigate their own suckage.   

when asked to go no-icons all the way for both sides, high-pitched voices squeak in about "how can i give a check 6?"  my answer?  just like they did in the real show - holler over radio and hope they guy is listening amidst the radio chatter. radio comms = "immersion," right?

But what really gets me is how disparate icons (none for enemy and 1-3k for friendly - or some variation thereof where the friendly has an icon advantage over the enemy) often lead to the very things that the AvA has been held up as (and constantly shot down as being not).  This disparity results in both an unfair advantage to friendlies (easier to set up picks) and leads to ganging as a friendly wanders over to two distant dots but has to get within practical engaement range (about 3k) to positively identify what's going on and by that point it's "well, since I'm already here..."

icons or no icons i don't really care; i do care that whatever the settings are, they are the exact same for both.

ideally I'd like the "dot-con" concept, and I'd be fine with it being a constant size (for both sides... no range data - just dot/planetype for enemy and dot/alt-i... no range data, for friendly.

The problem I see with turning them off individually in an arena  were they are on for others is that it creates an uneven playing field again but this time for the guy that turn icons off.

From my experience the desired effect of game play derived from  no icons settings is lost. No icons both sides creates a very different style of game play than you will get with icons on for both sides.

The fights are different for one between Icons off and icons on.

 With icons OFF there is less ganging and globing on  Acm's are much more effective and communication team work and formation  come into play much more.

 To me that is a bit more realistic and historical..

Icons off for enimy and on for freindly is silly. I agree

[2bighorn]

Acm's are much more effective

 

[daddog]

Interesting, so if enemylowicon range is set at 3k as well, the icons will stay the same regardless of alt?

That is my understanding jimson. Having played with the icon settings and the enemy low icon setting and how it ties into the radar alt numerous times. If you set the enemy low iconrange also to 3k which is the same as the enemy and friendly icon range then nothing will change no matter what you set the radar alt to be.

[TheBug]

Somebody better check Raven for rabies.   

[Karnak]

Bull!
one can Positively Id AC type in real life 400-1000 at best..

You need to get your eyes checked.

Is the situation complex?  Yes, a Spitfire and Bf109 from directly to the rear look similar at much closer ranges than they do in planeform, but I 100% guarantee that I can tell the difference between them at 1000 yards instantly if I am looking at them from any angle other than directly to the rear or front.

You are delusional with how short ranged you think eyesight is.