NO MORE TANK ACK

[E25280]

Please show me where it ever happened in real life ....once... ever.

For a game that can't have a skin unless its historically perfect, or a plane model thats not right, or a plane that flew in ww2 and had enough production, or flew enough sorties.... It is totally retarded that a tank can hit a plane when it never happened, much like a twig that flips a tank.

So the physics of a round firing from a cannon intersecting an aircraft and destroying it should not be possible in this game because you can't find an instance where it actually occurred?

Hmm . . . then please find me a source that says a KI-84 once shot down a N1K-2.  If you can not find it, then i want those pesky KI-84 rounds nerfed when flying my orange target around.

Oh, and here is a link (hope still valid) to a rather long article, but I'll quote the relevant section for those who think tanks didn't use their main guns to shoot at aircraft.  I'll also bold some relevant advice to those of you complaining about being shot by tank main guns.

http://english.iremember.ru/tankers/17-dmitriy-loza.html

- The Sherman had an antiaircraft machine gun Browning M2 .50 caliber. Did you use it often?
- I don't know why, but one shipment of tanks arrived with machine guns, and another without them. We used this machine gun against both aircraft and ground targets. We used it less frequently against air targets because the Germans were not fools. They bombed either from altitude or from a steep dive. The machine gun was good to 400-600 meters in the vertical. The Germans would drop their bombs from say, 800 meters or higher. He dropped his bomb and departed quickly. Try to shoot the bastard down! So yes, we used it, but it was not very effective. We even used our main gun against aircraft. We placed the tank on the upslope of a hill and fired. But our general impression of the machine gun was good. These machine guns were of great use to us in the war with Japan, against kamikazes. We fired them so much that they got red hot and began to cook off. To this day I have a piece of shrapnel in my head from an antiaircraft machine gun.

[Tank-Ace]

apple vs orange.   

meh, kinda. Here we have infinite trys to kill a tank if we crash and burn. No rational, sane IL2 pilot would dive in at 90 degrees and wait untill 200ft to pull up. We try stuff in here that is, well, frankly just stupid in real life. Single 3k lancasters flying into an area with air inferiority in broad daylight? Air command wouldn't expend that kind of effort to take out a single tiger.

[icepac]

Killing a plane with a tank main gun is no more unbeleivable than a c202 tracking a m4.

[PropHawk]

Yesterday I took 6 pings offline in an I l2 and killed all AA at a V base. AA is far more lethal than a tater chunker simply because of more $*** to dodge. 

[W7LPNRICK]

They can only shoot at a shallow angle.

+1  steep or fast are the only ways to be sure. 

[W7LPNRICK]

When I was first learning to bomb GV's I used a Jug N at just under 6K go inverted until I see friendlies on the ground, ask them where one is hiding, pull straight down on them from nearly vertical.  very clean as long as the sky is clear of Bogies.

[Raphael]

hahhaa i remember getting shot down a lot of times by tank rounds

[HawkerMKII]

One thing you need to remember is most players have many hours and lots of experience with shooting main guns at aircraft. I'm willing to bet that if tank crews in WW2 had the experience we do that there would've been more aircraft kills by tanks.

The solution is to fly higher, I can easily pull my B25 out of a dive when I'm bombing/75mming tanks, an A20 is even easier. Worse comes to worst just grab a fighter to do the job or heaven forbid another tank.

I would bet also maybe, just maybe SOME tank battles did not have 200 emeny a/c flying over head and lancstukas either

[MK-84]

I would bet also maybe, just maybe SOME tank battles did not have 200 emeny a/c flying over head and lancstukas either

I have never been in a gv battle with 200 aircraft over me, ever.

[DREDIOCK]

So the physics of a round firing from a cannon intersecting an aircraft and destroying it should not be possible in this game because you can't find an instance where it actually occurred?

Hmm . . . then please find me a source that says a KI-84 once shot down a N1K-2.  If you can not find it, then i want those pesky KI-84 rounds nerfed when flying my orange target around.

Oh, and here is a link (hope still valid) to a rather long article, but I'll quote the relevant section for those who think tanks didn't use their main guns to shoot at aircraft.  I'll also bold some relevant advice to those of you complaining about being shot by tank main guns.

http://english.iremember.ru/tankers/17-dmitriy-loza.html
"We even used our main gun against aircraft. We placed the tank on the upslope of a hill and fired."

Did they actually hit many? Probably not.

One thing is IRL you didnt have the same SA we have here. Here the commander,driver and gunner are all the same person. Therefor they all have the same SA.
Try just sitting in the gunners position and locating,aiming and then firing at a fast moving AC. Its alot more difficult and most shots you get to shoot as are more luck then skill. Just locating an AC would be as much luck as anything. then you have to train your gun and fire.

Here as I said. The commander,driver and gunner are all the same person You can jump from position to position and instinctively know where to move,look point and aim in a nanosecond. IRL they didnt have that kind of SA.

Also. we are talking 1 gun here. It was hard enough for a ship with a complete compliment of AA weapons many times more then a tanks single gun at its disposal to hit aircraft. And they still didnt always bring them down even with several ships firing on them. And they had the added incentive of their actual lives being on the line to not miss. I find it highly improbable that tanker even with the kind of experience we have here in game that a tank would have shot down an aircraft coming in at any angle as easily as its done here in game.

All of that is equally amusing to me because its far easier to hit an AC here with a tanks main gun with a single shot then it is with most AA guns here which have a by far a faster rate of fire.

but as I mentioned in an earlier post. Its a balanced tradeoff when you consider there are some planes here that take out tanks with far greater ease then they ever did IRL. Mostly due to the zoom feature which they didnt have IRL.

[DREDIOCK]

meh, kinda. Here we have infinite trys to kill a tank if we crash and burn. No rational, sane IL2 pilot would dive in at 90 degrees and wait untill 200ft to pull up. We try stuff in here that is, well, frankly just stupid in real life. Single 3k lancasters flying into an area with air inferiority in broad daylight? Air command wouldn't expend that kind of effort to take out a single tiger.

Not only that but they wouldnt allow airbases to be so close to the front lines so as a tank could get that close to begin with. LOL

[dirtdart]

Draw a circle the diameter of the gun you wish to replicate.  Keep in mind the fuze is point detonating. Then look at the parabolic flight the round must take from point A to point B.  I find it very unlikely that you could have the range perfect (plane is coming in at XXX M.P.H.) that the round drop is dead on at an ever changing range that you hit the 2-3 sq meter frontal area of an airplane.  There a computers that were not able to do this until the 90s.  (see SGT York ADA system).  I believe that the round fired from a cannon is much larger than the actual caliber in terms of space, not effects.  I have asked this question in the help section looking for an answer, no avail.  If I fire a gun into the void that is the game, it's destination is tracked in terms of time and flight path.  After XXX distance or time, I dont recall which, the game quits tracking the round.  All that said, when I fire the round from my barrel, since it is close, the effect it measures XX by XX pixels.  My question is, does it change is size as it travels downrange or does it stay XX by XX pixels (the only unit of measurement I can think of) regardless of range. 

Likely I am off base with my assumption, but I would love to know if or if not this is the case. 

[Tank-Ace]

whether they could hit the aircraft  isn't the point. Aircraft in Aces High do many, many, MANY things they didn't do in real life.

If you want your Il-2 to be able to take out multiple tanks with guns alone (and even groups rarely took out even a SINGLE tank with guns alone), you're going to have to put up with some BS coming back the other way, Dirtdart.


My advice to bomb****s and tank killers: Be happy if your planes survive half the idiotic watermelon you do, half of the time, because they still survive twice as long while doing twice as much.

[FBCrabby]

1) why fly right into their turret?
2) why were you low enough to be IN their turret

Cmon - its a good shot with a single tank round! At least tanks can defend themselves from ping-tards and bomb****s 

[dirtdart]

whether they could hit the aircraft  isn't the point. Aircraft in Aces High do many, many, MANY things they didn't do in real life.

If you want your Il-2 to be able to take out multiple tanks with guns alone (and even groups rarely took out even a SINGLE tank with guns alone), you're going to have to put up with some BS coming back the other way, Dirtdart.


My advice to bombers and tank killers: Be happy if your planes survive half the idiotic watermelon you do, half of the time, because they still survive twice as long while doing twice as much.

Aces high is a simulation using WWII stuff.  The day it quits being a simulation and becomes a console game is the day I quit.  FPS malarkey....