reevaluation of ENY

[Tank-Ace]

Ta-152 is worse than the spit 14 in the average low-alt furball IMO. Spit 14 turns better than the 152, spit 14 climbs better than the 152, the spit 14 is almost as fast as the 152. The only areas the 152 clearly beats the spit 14 is firepower and dive. The 152 also has what is one of, if not THE, worst stall in the game.

[Letalis]

Take a slip with the Spit14 and fixed. I know there is a push to unperk the 14, but I say leave it as a cheap perk ride.  A deck speed of 345-ish is avg for the MA.  The 14 can do 361 on the deck iirc. That edges the likes of the G14,Yak9U and F4U1A.

P-47N:  Excellent ord, roll. Good speed but poorest performance without WEP of ANY jug. This seems like a good candidate for raising ENY but showed up late in war.  Leave at 10ENY.
P-47M: Better K/D than Pony.  Better gun package, better climb with WEP, better angles fighter, much better toughness.  No A-G capability but it was a rarity in RL (130 built) and this should be reflected a little.  (5 ENY)
F6F: Compared to 20 ENY P47D40 the Hellcat has worse:  A-G ord, flaps, roll, guns, visibility, toughness, dive, and SPEED.  The F6F has a climb (maybe, and only below 10k), a tailhook and turn going for it. The Hellcat's rearward visibility is probably the worst of any fighter off the top of my head. The F6F was a major US type and sees the least use of any US of LW ride. Even with an ENY increase, I don't see the F6F reaching parity with the F4U-1D to say nothing of the F4U family as a whole. (20 ENY)
Ki84:  One of the best K/D in game and it is at 20 ENY. I'd compare it to a fast Spit9 (which is 20 ENY btw) with A-G capability and much better fuel economy.  (15 ENY)
Seafire: This 15ENY ride has vastly inferior performance to Spit9 with exception of turn. It is as the F6F  is to the D40. (20 ENY)
Brew:  Leave as is.  It is not a threat to most birds. A6M5b has better speed and climb. (25 ENY)
109K4: This is a monster. Arguably the best all-round E fighter in the game. The Spit 14/16 can give it problems but it is tougher and faster. Faster than a Pony at some alts, decent turn, outstanding climb. Would be even lower if the tater weren't so difficult to use. (15 ENY)
A20: 10 ENY.
110G-2:  15 ENY.  Sure the firepower is awesome but it is at a handicap in MA A-A engagements. In the same boat as the 47N imho.
190D9: Sure it can't flat turn a Pony but it outruns a Pony, has far more WEP, cannons w plenty of ammo, better climb/accel, and rolls like crazy.  It might even be a tad tougher than the Pony too. Lack of turn and ord keep it a notch below the Pony. (10 ENY)

8 Changes in total...pretty few gripes when you take the size of the planeset into account right? 

[Lusche]

FYI




The more a plane is located towards the top, the more it's being used (generally spoken), the more it's located to the right, the more success it has in terms of K/D. A plane that has both high K/D and usage can be said to be more "dominating" the arena than the others. All perk planes but the Spit 14 are way off the chart to the right, they do not fit into that scale.

[JUGgler]

Lusche, show me where to find statistics on the use of 110's for attack purposes.


OK wrongway.

110: The P-47's have equivelant or higher ENY values combined with much improved survivability.  The 110 is also hard to fly in a furball,

I am quite familiar with both and I would say the 110 will and can hold its own in a furball. To think the 110 is less capable than a JUG is rather ignorant, you should fly the 110 for sometime doing something other than NOE raids. Anything that gets in it's forward "cone of influence" is vaporized  With all that said I too agree that the 110G eny is too low, but who honestly cares?


JUGgler

[JUGgler]

Take a slip with the Spit14 and fixed. I know there is a push to unperk the 14, but I say leave it as a cheap perk ride.  A deck speed of 345-ish is avg for the MA.  The 14 can do 361 on the deck iirc. That edges the likes of the G14,Yak9U and F4U1A.

P-47N:  Excellent ord, roll. Good speed but poorest performance without WEP of ANY jug. This seems like a good candidate for raising ENY but showed up late in war.  Leave at 10ENY.
P-47M: Better K/D than Pony.  Better gun package, better climb with WEP, better angles fighter, much better toughness.  No A-G capability but it was a rarity in RL (130 built) and this should be reflected a little.  (5 ENY)
F6F: Compared to 20 ENY P47D40 the Hellcat has worse:  A-G ord, flaps, roll, guns, visibility, toughness, dive, and SPEED.  The F6F has a climb (maybe, and only below 10k), a tailhook and turn going for it. The Hellcat's rearward visibility is probably the worst of any fighter off the top of my head. The F6F was a major US type and sees the least use of any US of LW ride. Even with an ENY increase, I don't see the F6F reaching parity with the F4U-1D to say nothing of the F4U family as a whole. (20 ENY)
Ki84:  One of the best K/D in game and it is at 20 ENY. I'd compare it to a fast Spit9 (which is 20 ENY btw) with A-G capability and much better fuel economy.  (15 ENY)
Seafire: This 15ENY ride has vastly inferior performance to Spit9 with exception of turn. It is as the F6F  is to the D40. (20 ENY)
Brew:  Leave as is.  It is not a threat to most birds. A6M5b has better speed and climb. (25 ENY)
109K4: This is a monster. Arguably the best all-round E fighter in the game. The Spit 14/16 can give it problems but it is tougher and faster. Faster than a Pony at some alts, decent turn, outstanding climb. Would be even lower if the tater weren't so difficult to use. (15 ENY)
A20: 10 ENY.
110G-2:  15 ENY.  Sure the firepower is awesome but it is at a handicap in MA A-A engagements. In the same boat as the 47N imho.
190D9: Sure it can't flat turn a Pony but it outruns a Pony, has far more WEP, cannons w plenty of ammo, better climb/accel, and rolls like crazy.  It might even be a tad tougher than the Pony too. Lack of turn and ord keep it a notch below the Pony. (10 ENY)

8 Changes in total...pretty few gripes when you take the size of the planeset into account right? 

   The F6 is easily 3 times the plane "any" JUG is!



JUGgler

[Tank-Ace]

True jug, the 110 is about equal with the jug in a fair fight. But the Jug is faster (much faster depending on the model). AND it doesn't attract everyone and his grandmother trying to get an "easy kill".

[JUGgler]

True jug, the 110 is about equal with the jug in a fair fight. But the Jug is faster (much faster depending on the model). AND it doesn't attract everyone and his grandmother trying to get an "easy kill".

My milk brings all the boys to the yard 

I think only a goon brings more attention to itself then a low JUG or 110!

JUGgler

[Tank-Ace]

Low Jug? not really. low and slow Jug? yes.  Low and slow JUGgler? Well lets just say that even friendlys are going to be diving in for the kill  .

[JUGgler]

Low Jug? not really. low and slow Jug? yes.  Low and slow JUGgler? Well lets just say that even friendlys are going to be diving in for the kill  .

  , yes you do see the turmoil 


 


JUGgler

[AWwrgwy]

ENY/KTD (statistics taken from Late War Tour 138)
Ta-152: 10/1.60
190D9:  15/1.40
109K4:  20/1.29
190A5:  25/1.36

F4U-1C:  5/2.66
F4U-4:    5/2.87
Tempest: 5/7.31
Me163:    5/3.39
Me262:    5/7.06

Again, I give up on the ENY issue, but the statment "It's K/D is right up there below all the perk rides" is false.

Context.

What comes between the F4U-1C and the Ta152 K/D wise?

Looking at Tour 136 and 137, since you can sort by K/D, you have P-47M, 109K and P-38J in the same range. 109K and P-38s seem to have a dedicated group of fliers which tends to skew their results a bit.

So, it's still a K/D right below all the perk rides.




wrongway

[Letalis]

  The F6 is easily 3 times the plane "any" JUG is!



JUGgler

I call heresy!  Advantages in turn radius/rate are secondary to advantages of speed and visibility. This is also why the 110 is inferior to the Jug. (Mwhahaha!) Yes the 110 is a good airplane but only low and slow does it whup up on the 47. In larger engagements the 110 cannot effectively carry out 500mph passes like the Jug.  Speed is life and the 47 retains more speed. Even if the 110 weren't half as tough with some 30% more wing area to shoot, the jug would still be better off.  The attempted counter might be "110 has more firepower" but the Jug also vaporizes planes in similar fashion and does so at higher deflection and longer range.

break break

In reference to the Spit14, I think it's lack of success is derived more from the player types that fly it. New guys who want to put their nose on the bad guy till he blows up. The 14 looks like a logical progression from the 16 at first glance when it is in fact a different animal. While it is the most fragile of any perk ride, it is cheap and outperforms a sufficient portion of the planeset imo. I guess the question is whether eny should be based off of potential performance or actual results. I'm obviously leaning toward the former.   

[Tank-Ace]

While there are a few pilots that can really fly a K4, most of the ones I see are generally pretty poorly flown. Takes expierence to fly a K$ well, but the great preformance, and the big gun can draw people to it without their knowing how to fly it.

[Karnak]

I guess the question is whether eny should be based off of potential performance or actual results. I'm obviously leaning toward the former.   

I can list off a bevy of other fighters that need to be perked then, starting with the Bf109K-4, which is superior to the Spitfire Mk XIV in most ways.  10 minutes of WEP.

[Tank-Ace]

Actual results IMO. The K$ is a difficult plane to fly to its full potential, as are the 190 series of aircraft.

[Karnak]

Actual results IMO. The K$ is a difficult plane to fly to its full potential, as are the 190 series of aircraft.

So is the Mk XIV.  The Bf109K-4 climbs with it, turns with it, is faster than it, has twice the WEP, hits harder and is more controllable.  The Spit XIV is easier to hit with.

Oh, yes, the Spit XIV also comes apart due to its own maneuvers with ease.