The Inequity of it all

[Masherbrum]

The ME262 is a jet within the World War 2 era plane set that i believe saw more action than the spit16.

Where do you come up with this stuff?!   

[des506]

  i tot they took out the f3 mode already... up till today i still dunno how these fellas can shoot in f3 mode esp ghi in his il2...is it really easier ?? i only use the f3 mode in MA for buffs...

[Scca]

<Smacks Tyrannis>  Enough with the Spit 16 rants.  It's the same exact bird ans the Spit LFIXe.  Only difference being the engine is American made Packard Merlin 266 vs a Rolls Royce made Merlin 66.  Switch the engines of a 9 to a 16 and it becomes a 9. Switch the 16 engine to a 9 and it becomes a 16.  We've discussed the kills they got over and over again.  As most were flying with 2 TAF they were supporting the ground troops.  And frankly the opposition in the air just wasn't there.  but they had many kills and many squadrons flew them.

As you clearly know little about the 16, it's best to step back a bit and learn first before you make foolish statements regarding the Spitfire XVI.

If you are serious about learning, then I suggest you research 602 Squadron RAF and what they did with their 16s.  And I'd research 403 Squadron RCAF to see what they did with thier 16s.  That's just a starting point for you.

If that's too much work, then quit worrying about them and shoot em down.

I thought besides the engine, the wings are different too....

[Guppy35]

I thought besides the engine, the wings are different too....

Nope.  Came off the same production lines.  Last time we went through this I posted photos of two Spits one a 9 and one a 16 and they were back to back serial numbers.  E wing was standard on the 9 and 16 at the time the 16 showed up in 44.

[Scca]

Nope.  Came off the same production lines.  Last time we went through this I posted photos of two Spits one a 9 and one a 16 and they were back to back serial numbers.  E wing was standard on the 9 and 16 at the time the 16 showed up in 44.

Googled...

In game, the XVI has clipped wing tips, the IX doesn't, so in game, they do have different wings.   

[Guppy35]

Googled...

In game, the XVI has clipped wing tips, the IX doesn't, so in game, they do have different wings.   

Taking off or adding the wing tips was about a 15 minute task.  We have a Spitfire FIX in game from 1942-43 with full span wings.  The IX was in production longer then that and the majority of Spitfire IX production were Spitfire LFIX with Merlin 66.  Many also had clipped wings in 44-45 as they were doing the same job down low as the Spitfire LFXVI with the Merlin 266.   The reality in AH based on performance is that our Spitfire LFXVI is really a Spitfire LFIXe, but since they're the same, it really doesn't matter

We've been through this all before and with pictures too!

[RTHolmes]

I guess the DA has the F3 for new users and such like practicing, getting used to the game etc.

thats what the TA is for ...

DA should have the same view settings as MAs, and F5 shouldnt be available in either for anything.

[Tyrannis]

<Smacks Tyrannis>  Enough with the Spit 16 rants.  It's the same exact bird ans the Spit LFIXe.  Only difference being the engine is American made Packard Merlin 266 vs a Rolls Royce made Merlin 66.  Switch the engines of a 9 to a 16 and it becomes a 9. Switch the 16 engine to a 9 and it becomes a 16.  We've discussed the kills they got over and over again.  As most were flying with 2 TAF they were supporting the ground troops.  And frankly the opposition in the air just wasn't there.  but they had many kills and many squadrons flew them.

As you clearly know little about the 16, it's best to step back a bit and learn first before you make foolish statements regarding the Spitfire XVI.

If you are serious about learning, then I suggest you research 602 Squadron RAF and what they did with their 16s.  And I'd research 403 Squadron RCAF to see what they did with thier 16s.  That's just a starting point for you.

If that's too much work, then quit worrying about them and shoot em down.

<smacks back> nothing you have said has proved me wrong in what i said about the spit16 in the DA.
The ME262 was banned from fears that it would become nothing but a jet furball lake, the spit16 is the top plane used in the DA by a HUGE margin.
We've all seen the hordes of spit16's in that lake. So in all fairness the spit16 should be banned along the same lines as the me262 is: Because its the top flown plane by a LARGE margin.
and dont give me the "learn to fight the 16.." crap.  when your in a mustang and you get swarmed by a horde of 10k spit16s there is little you can do to fight them off by yourself.
And it ruins the diversity of he lake when you up to fight nothing but the spit 16 over and over and over.

Like i said, He's asking to ban something i like, so im asking to ban something he likes  

[Guppy35]

So shoot em down.  Or grab one yourself and shoot em down.

OK so you ban 16s.  There will be another horde to take their place.

And lets be clear, I was responding to your 5 minute google search on Me-262 kills vs Spit 16 kills.  You were trying to imply that the 16 wasn't a combat bird which is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

[Slade]

I am not pro or con Spit 16.  I notice Spit16s fall to the ground in a flaming mass of shards just as any plane.  Fun to fly.  Fun to shoot down.

If you are in a plane against a Spit16 and feel there is inequality...well what are you doing in a position that put you in such a favorable position to be shot down by one?   

Every plane is like a chess piece.  Maybe try not to fly against one that puts you in an inevitable negative advantage and outcome.

[Tyrannis]

So shoot em down.  Or grab one yourself and shoot em down.

OK so you ban 16s.  There will be another horde to take their place.

When that arena becomes nothing more than shooting at&getting shot down by spit16 hordes, then its become a problem.
i choose not to fly the spit, took those training wheels off along time ago.
And the lake is about diversity, not the same plane over and over,upping sortie after sortie to be pounced on by the same cloud of 20+ spit16s is ridiculous, a feeling shared by many in there.
And no, other than the spit dweebs, the place isent very bad. Only other plane problem in that arena is the pick/HO&run tempy pilots. but other than them no other plane gets horded. Banning the spit16 would be the best thing for the DA.
And quiet frankly Guppy, ive never seen you in the DA. or at least at the lake, so are YOU really qualified enough to pass judgement down on a subject concerning the lake, if you never fly in it?

And lets be clear, I was responding to your 5 minute google search on Me-262 kills vs Spit 16 kills.  You were trying to imply that the 16 wasn't a combat bird which is an absolutely ridiculous claim.

Not Originally, originally i was saying the me262 saw more combat action than the spit16. (a claim i am yet to be proven wrong on).
This was challenged, and upon doing a quick search, i could find no records of the spitfire XVI making any air to air kills. all i could find is that 1 website claiming it was used in ground attack.
Frankly Guppy, the spitXVI does not interest me enough for me to prompt further research into it other than my "5 min googling" at 3 a.m in the morning.
And no, I never claimed it wasent a combat bird. I claimed OTHERS had said it wasent a combat bird. Thrash's old spitXVI thread comes to mind when i say this.
So maybe you should reread what i say before you start making accusations.
oh, and btw i use yahoo.  

[Soulyss]

Not Originally, originally i was saying the me262 saw more combat action than the spit16. (a claim i am yet to be proven wrong on).
This was challenged, and upon doing a quick search, i could find no records of the spitfire XVI making any air to air kills. all i could find is that 1 website claiming it was used in ground attack.
Frankly Guppy, the spitXVI does not interest me enough for me to prompt further research into it other than my "5 min googling" at 3 a.m in the morning.
And no, I never claimed it wasent a combat bird. I claimed OTHERS had said it wasent a combat bird. Thrash's old spitXVI thread comes to mind when i say this.
So maybe you should reread what i say before you start making accusations.
oh, and btw i use yahoo.  

Just so I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that you made a statement off the top of your head w/out the research or facts at your disposal.  Then someone comes along who has done as much if not more Spitfire research than just about anyone here, you challenge his command of the facts then say you can't be bothered to actually sit down and see who's right?

[VonMessa]

i have done little to no research on the spit 16 in the war.


I just remember a time when alot of people were saying on the forums that the spit16 didn't deserve to be in the game because it supposedly didn't get any AvA kills because it arrived too late in the war to do so.
Me262's scored multiple confirmed kills.
from Wikipedia (its 3:01, im too tired to do hardcore research at this hour) The ME262 had 509 confirmed allied kills.
After a quick search of "spitfire XVI kills of world war 2" i have found no evidence that the XVI variant ever scored an AvA kill. (but its most likely due to me being too tired to search thourghly )

So unless the XVI has more than 509 confirmed kills, than the ME262 has seen more combat than it.

So far the only thing ive been able to find the XVI was used for was ground attack http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/aircraft/spitfiremkxvi.cfm
But i dont know how credible that website is, since that type of spitfire does not look like an XVI, even tho they call it one.

I call your straw man and raise you one false dilemma...   

[Tyrannis]

Just so I'm understanding this correctly, you're saying that you made a statement off the top of your head w/out the research or facts at your disposal.  Then someone comes along who has done as much if not more Spitfire research than just about anyone here, (Image removed from quote.)?

I simply do not care who's right and who's wrong because whether im right or he's right it still doesn't change the fact i originally presented, the spit16 should be banned from the DA.

[Delirium]

the spit16 should be banned from the DA.

Why? Instead of using the Spit16s in large numbers, they will something else like Tempests or Fw190s.

As for debating Corky on the Spitfire, you're going to lose big time.