Chinese Aircraft Carrier

[Grayeagle]

Tac .. I am sure you know the Russian CV was a jump-jet design that could also operate helicopters.
They never got anywhere near operating a CAG with US capabilities.
For them to hand the Chinese some paper with what they think a modern CV should be ..well.

The nickname for the Chinese IDF fighter was 'I Don't Fly' .. by the Chinese themselves.
I am sure they probably have some that match or exceed the F-15 in stats.

Stat for stat comparison's are futile exercises ..command and control, pilot capabilities, tactics and stragety
.. it all comes home when the shootin starts.

I do not know if the Chinese are determined enough to field Armed services capable of dominating the World.
I do know economically they seem to be bent on doing the best they can do.
They may become a world dominating economic power .. they might not.

I'd have to wonder how stable their government actually is if it's based on one man's lifespan.
That trick never works because sooner or later the man in charge goes right off the deep end.

-Frank aka GE (just sayin)

[PR3D4TOR]

Greyeagle, you must be thinking of the Moskva class helicopter carrier. The Kuznetsov class is a fixed-wing capable "heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser" with 12 Shipwreck long-range anti-ship missiles and typically 33 fixed-wing aircraft and 12 helicopters. It was designed to carry a mix of Su-33, MiG-29K and Su-25UTG, though the MiG was cancelled. The Su-33 and 25 are operational.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=203xKIYfsnk&feature=related

[PR3D4TOR]

The Shipwreck missile is also more of a 7-ton mach 2.5 kamikaze-drone than a typical anti-ship missile. It's the only cruise missile I know of that use group and swarm tactics forming a data-network between missiles with one missile popping up in intervals to act as an "AWACS" and prioritize targets for the other missiles, which fly NOE.

[AKKuya]

Don't forget the US Navy's Mothball fleet.  That alone - cobwebs, rusty hulks and all - has the potential to sink every other nation's navy twice over the last I looked at its inventory.  Yeah, they're not ready to sail tomorrow, but could be in a matter of weeks or months if we _needed_ to.

Best thing to use those old hulks after making them seaworthy again is to fill them up with lots of high explosives, install remote control systems and turn them into massive kamikaze ships against the adversarial ship fleets.

[Vulcan]

The nickname for the Chinese IDF fighter was 'I Don't Fly' .. by the Chinese themselves.
I am sure they probably have some that match or exceed the F-15 in stats.

Did you not see APDrones post further up? http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/08/entire-u-s-stealth-fighter-fleet-grounded/?hpt=hp_bn11

- just saying

[F22RaptorDude]

Did you not see APDrones post further up? http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/08/entire-u-s-stealth-fighter-fleet-grounded/?hpt=hp_bn11

- just saying

I'm going to actually cry

[Reschke]

What about this one....Taiwan has a new ship killer missile out there now.

http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news/awx/2011/08/11/awx_08_11_2011_p0-357893.xml&headline=Taiwan%20Points%20to%20Own%20Carrier-Killer%20Missile

[BaDkaRmA158Th]

True. The addition of railguns and plasma based weaponry to replace cannon/bullets in the fleet is a big step. Carrier wise though I think the best and biggest step the US can do is to start deploying Drone carriers.

Should it come to trading blows, a Drone carrier would negate China's natural advantages: manpower and manufacturing. If they use manned fighter jets while the US uses remote controlled or AI controlled drones then the US would remain in an advantageous position. A drone is much cheaper to build than a fighter jet and no american pilots would be lost vs. the loss of many chinese pilots...not to mention every US drone pilot would become steadily better while the chinese would become steadily worse.

Can you imagine even 1/10th of the Ah community controlling mach 3 drones while sitting at home defending there nation? weee. 

[Sikboy]

The Shipwreck missile is also more of a 7-ton mach 2.5 kamikaze-drone than a typical anti-ship missile. It's the only cruise missile I know of that use group and swarm tactics forming a data-network between missiles with one missile popping up in intervals to act as an "AWACS" and prioritize targets for the other missiles, which fly NOE.

(Image removed from quote.)

I dont believe the SS-N-19s came with the ship. I imagine the tubes were pulle, but obviously don't know for a fact.

-Sik

[MiloMorai]

Nazi Germany thought it had the best armed forces in the world. The first nuke will be by the USA when it starts loosing.

[Rash]

"Iraq went from the fourth-largest army in the world
to the second-largest army in Iraq in 100 hours"
-Lieutenant General Tom Kelly

[RufusLeaking]

China is:

A: Outstripping the USA Economically and Industrially

B: The US capability for military force and economic dominance on world markets is giving way to China at what is best described an Alarming Rate (USA falling while China is rising = high closure speed)

C: The Chinese build up is yet to come, as previously stated their military is simply going through preliminary stages similar to that which took place in the USA in the 1940's and 50's. give them 10 years or so and they will begin the new generation, and with all that research, manufacturing and money behind it.... thats a big build up.

and of course

D: If it does degrade to a simple war of Attrition, the Chinese will win CONVINCINGLY.

Pacman, breath.

A) China's impressive GDP growth rate is a percentage of a low base number. It also has to be spread across five times as many people as the US.

B) There has been chatter of US decline for decades. These things go in cycles.

C) Scale any build up to the size of China. Using the US as a yardstick, the Chinese should have 50 carriers. Again, the rate of growth is high because the starting point is so far behind.

D) "Never get involved in a land war in Asia."

I have been to mainland China six times. While I won't be giving up my citizenship any time soon, I love China. They are currently playing catch up after many decades of economic and political stress. China historically has been a leading nation in the world. There is nothing to fear with them assuming their natural position on the world stage.

Breath.

[Gman]

http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/ffg.htm

Nice little site I found comparing the USN to the PLAN.

What would be giving me sleepless nights if I was a USN planner is the 100+ semi stealthy TYPE 022 (Houbei) catamaran's with the capability of very high speed and EIGHT very capable surface to surface missiles.  Getting swarmed by even 30 of these little buggers would not be an easy exercise to defeat....240 high mach number cruise missiles...yikes.

I agree with the above poster 100% as well.

The Chinese have a long way to go to match our western tech, but they are most certainly on a road to try and accomplish exactly that, and with their numbers....


I believe that it's KillnU that is in the USN aboard 688 class Submarines.  I'd LOVE to hear him sound off as much as he's able to about the Chinese SSN/SSK capability with their newer designs.


http://simhq.com/forum/files/usergals/2011/08/full-1817-16500-naval_update_07_27_11_800.jpg

This also puts into perspective what having TEN Carriers actually means.  Only two of them are deployed, and maybe a few more would be available in a Crisis after who know how many days to get them spun up and battle ready.  About half of them are always in a constant state of upgrading/fitting out etc by the looks of things to me.   Of course, one US Navy CVN can take on all the other CV's in the world combined I've heard told, but still, it would sure be nice to have double the number, and have some of the NATO allies actually pitch in and start building these critically important ships.  There is NO reason that Britain and France shouldn't have several carriers and countries like mine (Canada) and other "staunch" Nato supporters like Norway should have at least one IMO.

[Tac]

also, due to their population control policy plus their cultural preference for boys... they have nearly 50 million young men now who literally have no women to hook up with.


Quite a pool of 'expendable' troops if you look at it with a cold blooded perspective.

[Reschke]

also, due to their population control policy plus their cultural preference for boys... they have nearly 50 million young men now who literally have no women to hook up with.

Quite a pool of 'expendable' troops if you look at it with a cold blooded perspective.

Not only that but a whole lot of frustration as well. Imagine not being able to go out and get your wild side done with before you do anything or stepping up to the state run hoochie hut right as the end man in a long line of your fellow soldiers for the 100 or so "clean" comfort women.