Author Topic: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?  (Read 3205 times)

Offline Maverick

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2011, 12:04:02 PM »
I shoot and hunt. I have done long range silhouette competition as well as normal hunting with the .308. The 06 has an edge over the .308 as far as velocity is concerned. It will shoot the heavier bullets, 168 and 180 grains, about 200+ FPS faster than the .308. The 308 is no slouch and certainly enough gun for elk as long as you do your part. I like the slightly lighter bullets better in the 308. I shoot the 150 gr for deer and feral pig. I shoot the 168 gr for long range shooting out to 500 meters in silhouette competition all in 308. For elk a good "premium" bullet like a Barnes in 168gr. will shoot flatter than the 180 in both 30-06 and 308. It will hold together and make plenty of penetration to get the job done. FWIW the military match ammo in .308 now seems to be the 174 gr slug, kind of right in between the 168 and the 180 weight.

I also hand load and my loads do not take a back seat to the "premium" ammo the manufacturers put out. The loads are tailored to the gun unlike the commercial stuff. Not that I am knocking commercial ammo. I shoot lots of surplus commercial stuff when I get a good price on it. Right now I use only 2 rifle powders fro 223 through 30-06. One will actually do all of them but is not the best option for accuracy in all or for velocity. BL(C)2 is a great rifle powder and pretty darn clean burning in medium velocity loads. I load some ammo for my step son to hunt with in his 06 and I set it for middle of the road velocity. Better recoil management and great accuracy. My 308 loads are in the same ball park. I stopped looking at max velocity loads a long time ago. Too little gain for the expense and wear on the rifle and brass not to mention me.

You do not need a magnum round to hunt North American game with the exception of the big bears. The 06 and 308 are plenty for deer and elk sized critters.

You really can't go wrong with either caliber. The 06 a little bit faster, the 308 maybe a touch more accurate and easier (cheaper) to find ammo and or brass.

I have had and used extensively the .223 (5.56), 22-250, 308, 3006 as well as black powder rifles to hunt game with. I would not feel under gunned with the .308 for anything other than the big bears. I love the 22-250 for varmints but the 223 is easier on the ears, barrel and far cheaper to shoot.

There is nothing wrong with the Remington 700 or the Savage rifles, especially with their accu trigger.
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Offline Vulcan

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2011, 05:13:56 PM »
:aok :rofl :rofl

I saw the howa in 30-06 and the package scope is much nicer and its only $429.00 vs the savage, same caliber at 399.00 with a cheap 35.00 scope.

Package scopes on the Howa's are usually Nikko-Stirling which are fairly 'average'. The entry level Savage is like the old Stevens isn't it - no accutrigger etc? imho the Howa is a much nicer action/finish (I had a Savage Stevens 200 in 223 for a while).

Offline ink

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2011, 05:37:25 PM »




Actually, the Mac-90 is not cheap.  The BATFE has banned importation of firearms from China thanks to the Chinese trying to sneak in a boatload of FA rifles for civilian sale some time ago.  So the price of them have gone up.  A "cheap" variant of what you are speaking of is the WASR-10.   ;)  Oh, and while ammo is cheap for the time being, if the Obama administration has their way ammo sales from Europe will be banned soon and that mean SHY-HIGH prices for 7.62x39.

For learning "how to", that rifle is not a good tool, imo.  A basic bolt action would be better.

I love the mac 90 had two of them, very easy to take apart, accurate, does not jam....but I wouldn't use it to hunt with though, I would rather have a 444 marlin for hunting :D

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2011, 07:14:16 PM »
When the zombie apocalypse comes (not a matter of if - only when - see U.K. London last week)...bullets will be worth their weight in gold

In fact they are high on the short list of things to have in quantity - such as:

Water - water purification capability
Antibiotics
Beans
Rice
Fire
Guns - Ammo (lots of both)
Basic fishing tackle kit - minimum of a hand line and several hooks in various sizes
Blades (knives, machete, axe) - Means to sharpen (stones & steels)
Food seeds
Vice grips
WD-40
Duct tape
Bailing Wire
Basic tool kit - mechanical
Basic tool kit - DC electrical
Basic tool kit - wood

 :aok

Feel free to add to this list

Adds:

AC wind generator (as found on sail boats)
Diode array (AC>DC)
Solar panels (as found on sail boats)


something I see wrong with the way you think,

-do you keep a full drawer of fire?  a dresser? house? how much fire is enough?
-no beer? then why bother staying alive.
-no pron either? not even a movie on beta?  a have a whole room dedicated to my magazines, of course they're for research only, but i sure as hell would like to keep them.

 :salute

semp


you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2011, 08:06:09 PM »
I shoot and hunt. I have done long range silhouette competition as well as normal hunting with the .308. The 06 has an edge over the .308 as far as velocity is concerned. It will shoot the heavier bullets, 168 and 180 grains, about 200+ FPS faster than the .308. The 308 is no slouch and certainly enough gun for elk as long as you do your part. I like the slightly lighter bullets better in the 308. I shoot the 150 gr for deer and feral pig. I shoot the 168 gr for long range shooting out to 500 meters in silhouette competition all in 308. For elk a good "premium" bullet like a Barnes in 168gr. will shoot flatter than the 180 in both 30-06 and 308. It will hold together and make plenty of penetration to get the job done. FWIW the military match ammo in .308 now seems to be the 174 gr slug, kind of right in between the 168 and the 180 weight.

I also hand load and my loads do not take a back seat to the "premium" ammo the manufacturers put out. The loads are tailored to the gun unlike the commercial stuff. Not that I am knocking commercial ammo. I shoot lots of surplus commercial stuff when I get a good price on it. Right now I use only 2 rifle powders fro 223 through 30-06. One will actually do all of them but is not the best option for accuracy in all or for velocity. BL(C)2 is a great rifle powder and pretty darn clean burning in medium velocity loads. I load some ammo for my step son to hunt with in his 06 and I set it for middle of the road velocity. Better recoil management and great accuracy. My 308 loads are in the same ball park. I stopped looking at max velocity loads a long time ago. Too little gain for the expense and wear on the rifle and brass not to mention me.

You do not need a magnum round to hunt North American game with the exception of the big bears. The 06 and 308 are plenty for deer and elk sized critters.

You really can't go wrong with either caliber. The 06 a little bit faster, the 308 maybe a touch more accurate and easier (cheaper) to find ammo and or brass.

I have had and used extensively the .223 (5.56), 22-250, 308, 3006 as well as black powder rifles to hunt game with. I would not feel under gunned with the .308 for anything other than the big bears. I love the 22-250 for varmints but the 223 is easier on the ears, barrel and far cheaper to shoot.

There is nothing wrong with the Remington 700 or the Savage rifles, especially with their accu trigger.

'tis good to see another person who has true knowledge in said topic.   :aok      :salute
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2011, 08:09:36 PM »



I love the mac 90 had two of them, very easy to take apart, accurate, does not jam....but I wouldn't use it to hunt with though, I would rather have a 444 marlin for hunting :D

Nothing wrong with that.  If you are fond of the 7.62x39, there is a company that took some old junky k98's and re-barreled them to 7.62x39, so hunting with that caliber is not out of the question.  However, the .30-30 has identical ballistics and has far more of a variety of ammo to chose from.   ;) 
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Barnes828

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2011, 08:48:48 PM »
If you looking for a cheap, reliable, fairly accurate bolt action to start, I'd say grab $200 bucks and go to your local gun show/store and get a nice M91/30 and one of those spam cans and starting plinking.

I recently picked up a '39 Tula and she is a blast! Literally!  :aok

But I also use my step dads Savage in 30-06 and she is good too.  :D

Mosin Nagants are awesome first rifles. Very simple weapon. The bolt is only 5 parts and it fits together like a puzzle piece. Fun cheap and easy to use/maintain

I also have a 39 tula :aok

Offline oneway

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2011, 08:51:16 PM »
something I see wrong with the way you think,

-do you keep a full drawer of fire?  a dresser? house? how much fire is enough?
-no beer? then why bother staying alive.
-no pron either? not even a movie on beta?  a have a whole room dedicated to my magazines, of course they're for research only, but i sure as hell would like to keep them.

 :salute

semp


Fire good - fire warm - fire cook meat - fire boil wort...be able to make fire in a blizzard

Beer - make beer - grain, yeast, water...hops..make with fire

Pron - makes you go blind - rather...need shelter mate - who can make fire - and then beer - pron follows

Uhgh

Offline dirt911

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2011, 08:52:11 PM »
I live in Ole Louisiana and I have a .444 I absolutley love it but around here most of the hunting I do is duck hunting with a 12ga Remington 870 Wingmaster chambering a 3" drylok shell.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:56:21 PM by dirt911 »

Offline Stellaris

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2011, 01:20:43 AM »
Man, gun people are so serious.  Riots happen, as they did in London, but rice and WD-40 generally don't help.  Or answer the poor guy's question.

So to answer the question...

1)  Figure out what you want to DO with your rifle.  Hunt?  Target shoot?  Climb a clock tower and make a political statement?
2)  Figure out what rifles will do that.
3)  Get the one you like.

There aren't really entry-level rifles.  There are cheap pieces of crap that you want to avoid, but don't waste your time with some phallic-compensation elephant gun.

However I think what you're really asking is what rifle to learn to shoot with.  Hopefully this will help.

If you're learning to shoot, what you need is to get a lot of rounds down-range - this matters WAY more than the rifle.  First, learn the principles of marksmanship.  Then get a half-decent .22 long bolt action with an adjustable iron peep sight and hit the range.  Yes, REAL men will laugh at you with your popgun compared to their custom 30-06 with the 10x scope, the bipod, the built-in water purifier and all.  However they will not outshoot you when you're cranking out a thousand rounds a week.  Even if you can afford this with .30-06, the learning curve will be steeper with fullbore.  Why make it hard? 

Once you have your rifle, practice the principles of marksmanship at home, just getting used to getting into position, getting a sight picture and releasing the round (obviously don't do this with live ammo!)  Find a range where you can shoot from sixty feet, it's less macho than a hundred metres, but it will let you get more groups done in less time.  Get a spotting scope (not a rifle scope!) and a notebook.  Put up ten-target paper, get in the prone and start shooting groups.  Fire a group of five, mentally noting any flaw in your technique for each round, check results with the scope, make WRITTEN notes for EVERY ROUND about what technique flaws (or triumphs) led to what result.  Your notebook should look like this.

Day:  12 Aug 11
Conditions:  Sunny and clear, 32, no wind.

Group #1
1. Position was good
2. snatched trigger, went high and right.
3.
4.
5. position shifted, went right.

Group #2
etc.

Just keep doing this until lunch.  Then do it more after lunch.  Then do it more after supper.  Then go home and come back the next day.  You'll quickly learn what a good shot feels like, and to correlate errors with results.  When you get good at groups look into shot plotting, wind and temperature adjustment, other positions and more advanced stuff. If at all possible get a coach, but there are many more bad coaches than good ones, so if your coach deviates very far from the above plan, get another one.  Above all, fire a thousand rounds a week, and do it every week for a year.  If you can shoot more, do it.  For .22 long this will cost you about $2000 in ammo, plus a couple of hundred for the rifle, which is a far better plan than investing $2000 in a rifle and a couple of hundred in the ammo for it.  You will end the year a very good shot indeed.

At this point, you can go out and get any rifle you like, and it will do what you want it to.

And always remember!  Guns don't kill people, irresponsible gun owners kill people.

;)

Offline JunkyII

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2011, 01:36:48 AM »
Go big or go home......Barett 50 cal...
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Offline AAJagerX

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2011, 04:34:47 PM »



I love the mac 90 had two of them, very easy to take apart, accurate, does not jam....but I wouldn't use it to hunt with though, I would rather have a 444 marlin for hunting dinosaurs :D


Fixed  :aok
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Offline ink

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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2011, 09:26:17 PM »
Go big or go home......Barett 50 cal...

Guys like you feel the need to make up for a small appendage.   ;)
Proud grandson of the late Lt. Col. Darrell M. "Bud" Gray, USAF (ret.), B24D pilot, 5th BG/72nd BS. 28 combat missions within the "slot", PTO.

Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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Re: Need a entry level rifle...but which one?
« Reply #74 on: August 16, 2011, 10:51:28 PM »
I have narrowed it down to two rifles based on reviews.  However I know this bbs has more opinions and informed people than the forums I've been doing my research on.  So far I have been seriously considering buying either a Savage 111 or the Marlin X7 in 30-06 or 308 caliber.  So far I have not seen a bad word about either of these rifles.  Anyone know of another rifle that falls into this price range with an equal or better reputation?  Or if one of these rifles has an edge over the other?

Thanks in advance


Of those two, the Savage, in .308. However, I suggest you check gun broker and auction arms, as well as Davidson's. My personal rifle of choice for a bolt action is the Winchester Model 70. I own about a 1/2 dozen of them in various calibers. I've bought a couple of them really cheap from the auction sites, and a couple really cheap at WalMart. I think I've bought 4 of my rifles for under $425, tax, shipping, and transfer fee, with a nice Simmons scope.
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