Skydive aircraft stall spin...aaagh

[Traveler]

took almost the end of the second page before someone mentioned it says it was not intentional. Can any of yall read? Explains it at the end of the video, pilot's run in was to slow and the plane stalled.

What else was he going to say, I intentionally did it?  That would have cost him much more then some additional training time. 

[MachFly]

Watch the film again and listen to who the passengers were in the back of a aircraft, perhaps a demo flight being given by Bob Hoover, it’s sometime between January 1960 and September 1965, That’s when EUGENE M. ZUCKERT, was SECAF.  Hoover was a pitchman for Rockwell Aviation and test pilot.   I’m sure it was a military demo flight, not subject to FAA regs.

Notice that the camera in the video presented while Bob performs the  reenactment is a video mounted in the aircraft, there is no passengers in the aircraft in which he performs his reenactment.

Take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

This guy is a civilian, on a non aerobatic airplane with another civilian on board (who is not a pilot).

[MachFly]

took almost the end of the second page before someone mentioned it says it was not intentional. Can any of yall read? Explains it at the end of the video, pilot's run in was to slow and the plane stalled.

If the youtube video says it's not intentional does not mean anything. I'm not saying it is intentional, but I'm not going to agree that it was un-intentional until they post a video of the pilot saying it.

[Golfer]

Tex Johnston is a really bad example of how to do things right if that's what you're trying to do.

I have about a hundred hours in a Focke Wulf 149D.  It's unique in that it allows up to 4 occupants to wear either backpack or seat cushion type parachutes while being aerobatic with each and every seat occupied and could be loaded perfectly happily to do so.  I sure wasn't giving instruction to the passengers in the back seats.  At the time I didn't have a CFI so I wasn't giving instruction to the passenger sitting in front.  Very much legal, thanks.

You'll find that most purpose built aerobatic airplanes have 1 or 2 seats.  The Marchetti SF260 has an option for a third.  There are aerobatic models of Bonanzas though I've never flown them and don't know their limitations for being loaded for aerobatics so whether or not they can practically carry passengers (for CG or whatever other reasons) I can't say but they have up to 6 seats.

A passenger in the front seat of a Pitts doesn't need to be receiving instruction to sit there.  Nor an Extra, nor an Eagle, nor an RV, nor an Acro Sport, etc. etc. etc.  I didn't need to be giving instruction to other pilot in a Yak 52/52TW to go upside down.  I didn't need to be receiving it either.  I didn't need to be a certificated pilot for that matter.

Shrug.

[MachFly]

Tex Johnston is a really bad example of how to do things right if that's what you're trying to do.

I'm not sure if I understand what your saying. Do you mean he's a bad pilot?

[Golfer]

I'm not sure if I understand what your saying. Do you mean he's a bad pilot?

Nope.  Just that he isn't a good example of how to do things right.

[MachFly]

Nope.  Just that he isn't a good example of how to do things right.

Ah, well I'm just giving Traveler a substitute for cpxxx's example.

I don't really know much about the guy, just that he had the guts and skill to roll a 707. Technically it's not that hard, I've done it on a Decathlon but I don't see myself ever doing that on something like a 707, it leaves you absolutely no room for error.

[Traveler]

Take a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_khhzuFlE

This guy is a civilian, on a non aerobatic airplane with another civilian on board (who is not a pilot).

Not sure what you point is, I don't know what the regulations were in 1950 for aerobatic flight.   The 707 prototype was developed in 1949 or 50 entered production in 53 and world wide operations in 54 I think.  The largest buyer was the airlines , but also the military.  Johnson was a former US Army aircore test pilot that left the airforce and joined Boing as a Test pilot.  The whole idea in a test flight is to push the envelope that's how they learn the limits of the aircrafe.  They help write the book.  If you trying to show that areobatics are performed with passagners in the back and that it a normal occurance well I think you need to find video that is not 60 years old.

[MachFly]

Not sure what you point is, I don't know what the regulations were in 1950 for aerobatic flight.   The 707 prototype was developed in 1949 or 50 entered production in 53 and world wide operations in 54 I think.  The largest buyer was the airlines , but also the military.  Johnson was a former US Army aircore test pilot that left the airforce and joined Boing as a Test pilot.  The whole idea in a test flight is to push the envelope that's how they learn the limits of the aircrafe.  They help write the book.  If you trying to show that areobatics are performed with passagners in the back and that it a normal occurance well I think you need to find video that is not 60 years old.

I never said that it's a normal occurrence, my point is that there is nothing that says that you can't do that (at least in the FAR). And him being former US military does not allow him to disregard the FAR.

[Traveler]

I never said that it's a normal occurrence, my point is that there is nothing that says that you can't do that (at least in the FAR). And him being former US military does not allow him to disregard the FAR.

FAR's were very different back in the 50's, but Test pilots that performed demo's for military did so in military airspace and within military airspace FAA or back then, CAA rules do not apply.  If he was doing a military demo.

[MachFly]

FAR's were very different back in the 50's, but Test pilots that performed demo's for military did so in military airspace and within military airspace FAA or back then, CAA rules do not apply.  If he was doing a military demo.

He was flying a civilian aircraft as a civilian test pilot. There is no such thing as military airspace, as long as your in US airspace you have to follow the FAA's rules.


I don't understand what your trying to prove, are you still saying that you can't do aerobatics with passengers or what?

[Puma44]

He was flying a civilian aircraft as a civilian test pilot. There is no such thing as military airspace, as long as your in US airspace you have to follow the FAA's rules.


I don't understand what your trying to prove, are you still saying that you can't do aerobatics with passengers or

He was flying a civilian aircraft as a civilian test pilot. There is no such thing as military airspace, as long as your in US airspace you have to follow the FAA's rules.


I don't understand what your trying to prove, are you still saying that you can't do aerobatics with passengers or what?

Yes, there is military airspace.  From the video, can it be determined what type of airspace he was flying in at the time?

[colmbo]

There are Military Operation Areas and there are Restricted Areas used primarily for military training (not always aviation related -- think artillery range) but these are just part of the airspace system in the US -- they are not "military airspace".  The rules governing these areas are the FARs, not military regs.  The military doesn't own the airspace.

[Puma44]

In the technical sense, correct.  Although, some of the military's restricted areas are not open to civilian traffic.  What the military does within those areas is not necessarily in compliance with FARs due to operational requirements. 

[SFRT - Frenchy]

They are open to civilian traffic with center's authorization, typically when inactive.