Author Topic: Components of fighter score...  (Read 6092 times)

Offline Midway

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4579
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #45 on: November 22, 2011, 10:56:38 AM »
I have another point of view there Coombz.

For me it's more important and even realistic flying and trying not to die.

Fighting without caring if you die or not is a lot more gamie. It's more like plying Sonic's fite at the PS2 with my son.

Nevertheless, I respect your point of view.


I fight very much with caring that I live to land.  I do not want to die.  I want to shoot down 8+ and get my name in lights landing the victories that a typical Top Gun  :cool: pilot might land. ( and get the wtg's that come with it!  :D )  

But, for now...I only land what a typical Loose Duecer will land (2 or 3), on occasion more, but they probably have 8 assists :furious  each  :devil  where I have maybe 1. :angel:

 :old: Graduating from 2 or 3 landed to that of Top Gun level of 8+ takes awesome skill development by trying and dieing.

 :)


    PARADISE ON EARTH  ------->  http://www.youtube.com/v/g_D4RhfCY2M&autoplay=1&hd=1&fs=1   <-------  PARADISE ON EARTH :)



Offline zack1234

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13182
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #46 on: November 22, 2011, 11:00:13 AM »
WTG :)
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
The GFC
Pipz lived in the Wilderness near Ontario

Offline dhyran

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1931
      • ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #47 on: November 22, 2011, 12:31:06 PM »
I fight very much with caring that I live to land.  I do not want to die.  I want to shoot down 8+ and get my name in lights landing the victories that a typical Top Gun  :cool: pilot might land. ( and get the wtg's that come with it!  :D )  

But, for now...I only land what a typical Loose Duecer will land (2 or 3), on occasion more, but they probably have 8 assists :furious  each  :devil  where I have maybe 1. :angel:

 :old: Graduating from 2 or 3 landed to that of Top Gun level of 8+ takes awesome skill development by trying and dieing.

 :)

yeah, i know what you talking about, its like in the game, you talk about it on ch200 all night long, i just do it...... ;)



« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 12:35:22 PM by dhyran »

dhyran  - retired  CO  ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~        www.loose-deuce.net/

Offline Midway

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4579
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #48 on: November 22, 2011, 12:35:50 PM »
yeah, i know what you talking about, its like in the game, you talk about it on ch200 all night long, i just do it......

(Image removed from quote.)



Nice...wtg, I do to (even landed 8 before on my own), on occasion... but Top Gun  :cool: does it very often, multiple times per day even.  :eek:

Don't worry though, even LDs  :uhoh can, like me  :angel:, work hard to get up to Top Gun level  :aok --- one day.  I have faith hard work will get us there.

 :salute

btw: Fighting for assists won't do it.  :)

 :salute

« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 12:37:56 PM by Midway »


    PARADISE ON EARTH  ------->  http://www.youtube.com/v/g_D4RhfCY2M&autoplay=1&hd=1&fs=1   <-------  PARADISE ON EARTH :)



Offline dhyran

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1931
      • ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #49 on: November 22, 2011, 12:48:59 PM »


Don't worry though, even LDs  :uhoh can, like me  

 :salute



Well you have to accept the truth..... Even when it might hurt

dhyran  - retired  CO  ~<<~Loose Deuce~>>~        www.loose-deuce.net/

Offline clerick

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1742
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2011, 01:02:41 PM »

sorry for the thread de-rail  :uhoh


I have no beef with  his flying style. He's usually a fun fight. I take issue with his "lookit me!" antics. This thread is a great example of exactly how disrespectful he can be. He contributed nothing to the conversation at hand other than to troll. Shame on thoe that take the bait and shame on those that encourage it.

Offline Midway

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4579
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2011, 01:06:38 PM »
I have no beef with  his flying style. He's usually a fun fight. I take issue with his "lookit me!" antics. This thread is a great example of exactly how disrespectful he can be. He contributed nothing to the conversation at hand other than to troll. Shame on thoe that take the bait and shame on those that encourage it.

 :old: An LD disparaged my good name's k/D and I should be allowed to defend said good name.

 :huh He even laughed, triple laughed, at my k/D near the beginning of this thread!  :uhoh

 :angel:
« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 01:58:36 PM by Midway »


    PARADISE ON EARTH  ------->  http://www.youtube.com/v/g_D4RhfCY2M&autoplay=1&hd=1&fs=1   <-------  PARADISE ON EARTH :)



Offline clerick

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1742
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #52 on: November 22, 2011, 01:14:07 PM »
not before your narcissism showed. Take it to PM.

I'd rather read Lusche's numbers than see you and your detractors compare dick sizes.

Offline Midway

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4579
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #53 on: November 22, 2011, 01:32:12 PM »
not before your narcissism showed. Take it to PM.

I'd rather read Lusche's numbers than see you and your detractors compare dick sizes.

 :O

 :uhoh

 :noid


    PARADISE ON EARTH  ------->  http://www.youtube.com/v/g_D4RhfCY2M&autoplay=1&hd=1&fs=1   <-------  PARADISE ON EARTH :)



Offline Shane

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7423
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #54 on: November 22, 2011, 06:10:00 PM »
Thx lusche, awesome little table.  This is only base don tour 141 data, though, right, since it's still a relative ranking?  It does allow you to play with the "what if..." like you said.  My "what if..." is my hit %

Surrounded by suck and underwhelmed with mediocrity.
I'm always right, it just takes some poepl longer to come to that realization than others.
I'm not perfect, but I am closer to it than you are.
"...vox populi, vox dei..."  ~Alcuin ca. 798

Offline The Jekyll

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 528
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #55 on: November 22, 2011, 08:11:08 PM »
Ok, lets marry the original thread, and the hijacked thread together.

Q: which flying style most hurts a good fighter score followed up by which flying style most helps a good fighter style?

There is a set of tracks folks, stay on em or feel the wrath! :devil
Yea, simply because I can

Offline mtnman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2438
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #56 on: November 22, 2011, 10:55:11 PM »
My "what if..." is my hit %

It's funny you mention that Shane, because I honestly think that element is more of a "key" than the other elements when it comes to fighter rank. 

IMO, improving your Hit% will likely result in an almost automatic improvement in the other subsections, particularly for someone who fights the way that I remember you fighting.  I took a look at your current Hit%, and it was right around 5%, which is right at the top edge of (but still in) the "masses".  Improving it slightly would put you into the realm of accuracy that is shared by only a small percentage of AH players.

Doing that wouldn't matter much from a rank standpoint (back to the previously-mentioned (Lusche?) "rule" of diminishing returns for improvement beyond a certain level).  But... Improving it to the 10% level would.  The reason I say that is because it would cut your firing time down to about 1/2 of what it is now to inflict the same damage.  That means if it currently takes you 4 crossing "snapshots" to kill your opponent, you could cut it down to two.  Or take several missed kill opportunities and turn them into quick kills.  On those saddle-up kills you'll score a bunch more (twice as many) hits in the same amount of time (more damage points).  Even bombers become one-pass kills (or at least give more damage points if they're already one pass kills).

The effect of that is a lesser loss of SA. 

Better shooting equates to quicker finishes to your fights, which improves survivability.  Those 2 on ones or 3 on ones are much more survivable if you can kill the guys in front of you rather than miss them or just "sting" them. 

In that way, an improved Hit% could easily bring up your K/D, which almost automatically brings up your K/S (especially because killing quickly helps keep you from taking hits yourself; even the more or less inconsequential hits add up...).  Killing quickly has the effect of making your gas mileage seem greater, allowing you to kill a few more times more in that same xx minute fuel window.

An improved Hit% makes it easier to rack up more damage points, in less time, in fewer sorties, with less ammo.  It leads to far fewer assists (more kills).

It's also an element that you can "work on" to greater effect than K/D, K/T, K/S or points.  And while improving your Hit% can help lift the other elements, picking one of those other elements to work on generally had the opposite effect for me (i.e. working to raise my K/D made me try to fly "safer" which led to a worse K/T).

I've never been one to enjoy vulching, ganging, or augering, and I consider it a personal requirement to RTB to consider my sorties "successful".  Those attitudes generally hurt fighter rank, but with a better than average Hit% I still often found myself ranked in the top 25 more or less accidentally.

And beyond that, Hit% is the one thing the AH community never really seems to improve on as a whole so it's fairly easy to jump to the lead and have a leg up on the others when it comes to rank.  Get your Hit% up to 7% or so, and you'll be in a tiny minority of players.

And there's even a psychological advantage to it.  Landing those little hits here and there on those crossing shots that nobody ever makes is disheartening to an opponent.  It boost your confidence, while degrading his.  Fun stuff!
MtnMan

"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not". Thomas Jefferson

Offline BaldEagl

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10791
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #57 on: November 22, 2011, 11:48:22 PM »
My hit% was in the 10-12% range when I was flying a lot.  Now it's in the 6-7% range and I think I've only broken the top 100 a couple of times.  K/T always has been my weak spot and now kill points adds to that since I don't play as much.  Taking off a base away from the action, flying in less populated areas of the map, getting there when the fight's already over, saving fuel using max cruise, getting antsy to fight and diving into a horde only to die, etc., etc, etc.

Hit% can help but you have to pay attention to the whole picture.
I edit a lot of my posts.  Get used to it.

Offline grizz441

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7000
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #58 on: November 23, 2011, 01:01:11 AM »
It's funny you mention that Shane, because I honestly think that element is more of a "key" than the other elements when it comes to fighter rank. 

IMO, improving your Hit% will likely result in an almost automatic improvement in the other subsections, particularly for someone who fights the way that I remember you fighting.  I took a look at your current Hit%, and it was right around 5%, which is right at the top edge of (but still in) the "masses".  Improving it slightly would put you into the realm of accuracy that is shared by only a small percentage of AH players.

Doing that wouldn't matter much from a rank standpoint (back to the previously-mentioned (Lusche?) "rule" of diminishing returns for improvement beyond a certain level).  But... Improving it to the 10% level would.  The reason I say that is because it would cut your firing time down to about 1/2 of what it is now to inflict the same damage.  That means if it currently takes you 4 crossing "snapshots" to kill your opponent, you could cut it down to two.  Or take several missed kill opportunities and turn them into quick kills.  On those saddle-up kills you'll score a bunch more (twice as many) hits in the same amount of time (more damage points).  Even bombers become one-pass kills (or at least give more damage points if they're already one pass kills).

The effect of that is a lesser loss of SA. 

Better shooting equates to quicker finishes to your fights, which improves survivability.  Those 2 on ones or 3 on ones are much more survivable if you can kill the guys in front of you rather than miss them or just "sting" them. 

In that way, an improved Hit% could easily bring up your K/D, which almost automatically brings up your K/S (especially because killing quickly helps keep you from taking hits yourself; even the more or less inconsequential hits add up...).  Killing quickly has the effect of making your gas mileage seem greater, allowing you to kill a few more times more in that same xx minute fuel window.

An improved Hit% makes it easier to rack up more damage points, in less time, in fewer sorties, with less ammo.  It leads to far fewer assists (more kills).

It's also an element that you can "work on" to greater effect than K/D, K/T, K/S or points.  And while improving your Hit% can help lift the other elements, picking one of those other elements to work on generally had the opposite effect for me (i.e. working to raise my K/D made me try to fly "safer" which led to a worse K/T).

I've never been one to enjoy vulching, ganging, or augering, and I consider it a personal requirement to RTB to consider my sorties "successful".  Those attitudes generally hurt fighter rank, but with a better than average Hit% I still often found myself ranked in the top 25 more or less accidentally.

And beyond that, Hit% is the one thing the AH community never really seems to improve on as a whole so it's fairly easy to jump to the lead and have a leg up on the others when it comes to rank.  Get your Hit% up to 7% or so, and you'll be in a tiny minority of players.

And there's even a psychological advantage to it.  Landing those little hits here and there on those crossing shots that nobody ever makes is disheartening to an opponent.  It boost your confidence, while degrading his.  Fun stuff!

Nail on da head.

Offline Kovel

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 232
Re: Components of fighter score...
« Reply #59 on: November 23, 2011, 03:00:14 AM »
mtnman, your post for me is excellent and I agree 100%. Nevertheless, I think that %hit is a "cause indicator" and no an "effect indicator". I think its a mistake mixing up cause and effect indicators altogether.

Following the same rule, you could rank  "% fuel when you get a kill". It means that the more fuel you have when you get a kill, the more control you have over your plane, so you can survive more, land more kills, etc. In this exemple, we are facing again one "cause indicator" with "effects indicators", and you could choose even more "cause indicators"......

For me, scoring "cause indicators" makes no sense.

I wouldn't rank % hit, althought it is very important for the reasons you mentioned.

 :salute

 
" I personally led the attack to A1" - Pipz