Do - 335

[EVZ]

and end up getting shot at, you weren't in combat. You were in close proximity to it, you were in a combat zone, but you yourself didn't take part in the combat.

Maybe you can explain that to the Chaplin giving the dying last rites on the front line, the Corpmen getting shot-up and killed trying to stop the wounded's bleeding, the photo journalist being sniped at as he records the gory details ... and that pilot running for his life from 3 angry english tempests whom you seem to feel STUMBLED into a COMBAT ZONE called -GERMANY- in 1945. Tell it to the WAR dept that gives them medals and the widows putting flowers on the graves of their children. Lets see how many of em take a poke at your nose ... ?

So your definition of a disruptive idiot is "anyone that tells me I can't have what I want, even if theres very good, logical, and sound reasons why I can't"?

I have no problem with someone who feels the need to disagree ... Until they FEEL they have to dispute EVERYONE and try to intimidate and discredit those who disagree with them ... then try and divert the thread to THEIR pet subject and start making up non-existant rules and redefining war dept. criteria that has been accepted since the revolutionary war ... gee who do we know who does that?

HT will do what he thinks best about the 335. I can live with that. I hope he likes it as much as many of us do. I sincerely doubt he pays much attention to the habitually disruptive element.

[Butcher]

If the Critera is anecdotial, (which is I believe, fielded to some degree operationaly, saw combat, shot at something or got shot at) but assumed accurate...

Why was the P51H part of a vote?

What I mean is that the anecdotal  does not really mean anything.  I understand the P51H poll is VERY old, but if there is no actual proof then almost anything is up for game isn't it? 

P51H
Meteor
P47M
Ta152
ME163
Do335<--does not seem unrealistic to me

I'm biased though:  (I totally want to fly this, it's so completly unique to what we have )

As you said, the poll was extremely old before an EW, MW, Late War arena system was setup. As popular as the P51-D is in the Main Arena, wouldn't the P51-H likely be already added if there wasn't a system put into place shortly after that list was created?

Back then Aces High was going through a transitional phase, trying to find out what worked - due to lack of players two Late War Arenas were combined to join one Arena, which I think was a better option overall - problem with the two late war arenas was, If half your squadies were in one arena, and its locked due to too many players, you were only able to join the second Late War Arena - which if most of your "countries" usual population was in the first arena - you again were stuck in the second arena.

We even had night time, which didn't last either. Now we only have this in the snapshot arena which I was hoping this would spark some more interest, but really it hasn't changed.

Right now we recently went through a change in the GV system, with the commanders view and automatic transmission. Few months ago it was a war zone of whines over the change, honestly I loved the new change and found it easier to learn to GV. I once never touched a ground vehicle till the new system rolled out. Soon the system will change to balance out the ground vehicles, lowing the spotting range of attack aircraft, giving Ground vehicles a chance to survive.

Back to main topic - its always been REALLY debatable over the Do-335 issue, I still say it would be a nice "wish" but never added in game.
If it did I wouldn't mind spending a hundred or so perks to fly it.

[Rino]

Again, if you blunder into a combat zone because you're to stupid to pay attention to the rattle of gunfire up ahead, and end up getting shot at, you weren't in combat. You were in close proximity to it, you were in a combat zone, but you yourself didn't take part in the combat.

Saying the Do 335 saw combat is like going to Iraq as a tourist, seeing a few US soldiers there with guns, and then coming back and telling everyone that you've seen some action.



No officially posted rules from HTC, but we've identified some minimums that they have ALWAYS followed. Not one single plane, tank, halftrack, or boat breaks the rules. Since they've followed those guidelines for 10 years, its safe to say they won't break them now.

Just like gravity. You can't see it, but you know its there by observing it's effects and how it interacts with objects. Black holes too, come to that.

And the Wishlist is just where we suggest things that HTC might do in the future. Very few things get added anytime within 3 years of being requested. Only one I can think of off hand that DID get added very soon after it was requested is the armor penetration and armor layout charts. Try sending Hitech a PM, he might listen to you, though with your attitude I'm inclined to doubt it.



So your definition of a disruptive idiot is "anyone that tells me I can't have what I want, even if theres very good, logical, and sound reasons why I can't"?

Sounds a lot like the conclusion a petulant 5 year old would arrive at.

     If you are getting shot at, you are in combat whether you can shoot back or not.  If a destroyer is under air attack, wouldn't
you consider every member of that crew in combat?  Even the enginemen who can't possibly fight back?

[Karnak]

I am not aware of any Do335 that actually got shot at.

[Butcher]

I am not aware of any Do335 that actually got shot at.

Pierre has been widely debatable, any case I will just leave this here:

"French ace Pierre Clostermann claimed the first Allied combat encounter with a Pfeil in April 1945. In his book The Big Show (pages 273-274) he describes leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests from No. 3 Squadron RAF over northern Germany, when he intercepted a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade. Despite the Tempest's considerable low altitude speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position."

[Karnak]

Pierre has been widely debatable, any case I will just leave this here:

"French ace Pierre Clostermann claimed the first Allied combat encounter with a Pfeil in April 1945. In his book The Big Show (pages 273-274) he describes leading a flight of four Hawker Tempests from No. 3 Squadron RAF over northern Germany, when he intercepted a lone Do 335 flying at maximum speed at treetop level. Detecting the British aircraft, the German pilot reversed course to evade. Despite the Tempest's considerable low altitude speed, the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position."

Note that the Do335 was not shot at in that account. "the RAF fighters were not able to catch up or even get into firing position."

[EagleDNY]

If you watch the video, its got eye candy, however I can tell you the gameplay will be nothing more then World of warcraft flown by a bunch of newbies.

I don't doubt it - but with that much eye candy they are sure to attract a good number of us ww2 aircraft geek gamers to at least give it a try. 

[Butcher]

I don't doubt it - but with that much eye candy they are sure to attract a good number of us ww2 aircraft geek gamers to at least give it a try. 

Sure, I am willing to give it a go also, however after seeing some reviews from some of the more die hard pilots, I won't be missing much of it.

[EVZ]

I am not aware of any Do335 that actually got shot at.

So you feel that a REAL COMBAT pilot hangs around to face 3-4 to 1 odds so that he QUALIFYS for the extra $$$ they pay him ... ?

[Ack-Ack]

So you feel that a REAL COMBAT pilot hangs around to face 3-4 to 1 odds so that he QUALIFYS for the extra $$$ they pay him ... ?

No matter how you try and spin it, you cannot deny the indisputable fact that the Do 335 never saw any combat action.

Was the Pfeil ever fired on?  No.
Did the Pfeil ever engage an enemy plane in combat?  No.
Did the Pfeil ever fire its guns at another plane?  No.
Was the Pfeil in operational service?  No.
Are there any combat records for the Pfeil?  No.

There are more worthy windmills to tip your lance at, the Pfeil isn't one of them.

ack-ack

[EVZ]

No matter how you try and spin it, you cannot deny the indisputable fact that the Do 335 never saw any combat action.

In THIS documented instance, A Do-335 was ATTACKED ... unsuccessfully ... according to YOU this was a _NON-COMBAT_ attack ... So the tempest S&D mission was NON COMBAT also? Since THEY didn't fire their guns? -OR- the tempests WERE flying COMBAT since they TRIED to Attack? But the plane they attacked was NOT? If they HAD shot it down then !!! WOW a NON COMBAT KILL !!! Your reasoning would seem to imply that ALL fighter sorties flown in WWII that didn't involve targets located and FIRED ON were NOT COMBAT MISSIONS ??? Keep digging, you're half way to china already !

[Ack-Ack]

In THIS documented instance, A Do-335 was ATTACKED ... unsuccessfully ... according to YOU this was a _NON-COMBAT_ attack ... So the tempest S&D mission was NON COMBAT also? Since THEY didn't fire their guns? -OR- the tempests WERE flying COMBAT since they TRIED to Attack? But the plane they attacked was NOT? If they HAD shot it down then !!! WOW a NON COMBAT KILL !!! Your reasoning would seem to imply that ALL fighter sorties flown in WWII that didn't involve targets located and FIRED ON were NOT COMBAT MISSIONS ??? Keep digging, you're half way to china already !

I never said the French mission that day (it was Free French pilots flying those Tempests) was a non-combat one.  I am saying, and there is the pilot's own account, that there wasn't any combat between their Tempests and the supposed Do 335 they spotted many miles away from them.  In Clostermann's own words, he and the rest of his flight were not able to close on the bandit to engage it in combat.  They tried to attack the Do 335 but the Do 335 quickly left the area and did not engage in combat.

Look, we all realize that you want this plane and will invent any fantasy scenario that you can think of to make it fit the criteria that's been used for planes to be included in the game.  We get it but you don't seem to realize that no matter how you try and spin it, the plane doesn't meet any of the criteria that has been used for other planes.

ack-ack

[Tank-Ace]

If you are getting shot at, you are in combat whether you can shoot back or not.  If a destroyer is under air attack, wouldn't
you consider every member of that crew in combat?  Even the enginemen who can't possibly fight back?

difference is that a destroyer will fire back. We're not talking about the individual crew members, any more than we're talking about the pilot of the Do-335. I think that, for vehicles, aircraft, or weapons, firing at the enemy is a requirment for combat.

Maybe EVZ getting shot isn't such a good example. It would be more like taking a fancy new battle rifle over to Iraq for field testing, having a few bulllets fly in the general direction of the soldier carrying it (but not even close enough to make the veteran duck!) without said soldier ever seeing the enemy, let alone firing the rifle, and then saying that its been "tested in combat".

Yes, the rifle was being carried by a soldier who has seen combat, and was in a combat zone. No, the rifle did not recieve field testing, as it was never fired. No it was not "tested in combat", no testing took place, and quite arguably no combat even took place.



Point being that, smart-assed, trying-to-be-clever hair splitting aside, we need to be rational about things. Looked at without the "I want this!" goggles on, can you honestly say that this plane was in, in combat, and took part in said combat by engaging enemy aircraft or ground targets?

[EVZ]

They tried to attack the Do 335 but the Do 335 quickly left the area - no matter how you try and spin it

Yep, he EVADED THE ENEMY's superior strength... Smart Move. I'm sure that scenario was repeated HUNDREDS of times in the european theatre, by BOTH sides ... Under DOD guidelines, the entire country of germany was an air combat zone. EVERY mission flown, by ANY type aircraft was COMBAT. Now I think we can all agree the pentagon is NOT "Spinning" anything, and I don't think referencing official policy is either. YOU are the person insisting  "That doesn't count."

[Tank-Ace]

Flying a mission in a combat zone is different than flying a combat mission, regardless of what the make-believe "official" defenition you pull out of your arse is.

You can be in a combat zone and not be in combat. "Combats" is litteraly french for fighting, and fighting requires that you do something TO the enemy. If you turn tail and run, THEY might have been fighting, but YOU sure as hell weren't

And whos defenition are we going by? For the hell of it, lets go by Iceland's defenition combat.



EVZ, you really are starting to behave like a petulant child, and quite frankly, its growing tiersome. You can't seem to accept that the Do 335 is NOT a worthy addition to Aces High. Nobody has derailed your thread (we're still talking about the Do 335), nobody has done ANYTHING to deserve the label "disruptive idiot" if anything, that label is best applied to you.


My suggestion would be to take a step back, and try to look at things from an unbiased perspective. Or better yet, have your parents proof read your posts.