PERK THE LANCASTERS (in MWA)

[Karnak]

This thread demonstrates more than anything why my wish for a different wish list forum for each arena.  All these late war guys are arguing and throwing out Late war stats....  If you would read the title this was a Mid War request.  Perking or lowering the ENY for the lanc in Late war would be insanely stupid but thats NOT what was asked.  No one from LW will understand the request, good or bad, for MW because they just dont understand the dynamics of MW.

What late war stats?  We're all talking about aircraft in mid-war.  Maybe you should familiarize yourself with them a bit better so you know how potent mid-war fighters are.  The Bf110G-2, Mosquito Mk VI and P-47D-11 are all available in the MWA and they will all rip a formation of Lancasters to pieces.

That the kill of a Lancaster formation I had in a Mossie happened in the LWA is completely irrelevant as both aircraft perform exactly the same in the MWA.

[grumpy37]

What late war stats?  We're all talking about aircraft in mid-war.  Maybe you should familiarize yourself with them a bit better so you know how potent mid-war fighters are.  The Bf110G-2, Mosquito Mk VI and P-47D-11 are all available in the MWA and they will all rip a formation of Lancasters to pieces.

That the kill of a Lancaster formation I had in a Mossie happened in the LWA is completely irrelevant as both aircraft perform exactly the same in the MWA.

I think you need to back off just a little bit.  I am very familiar with what goes on in MW, im there every day, have been for over 5 years now. When was the last time you were there?  If you flew in MW on the low sided team EVERY DAY you may understand why this request was made but you dont so you wont.  Im not saying what was requested should be implemented but I can understand why it was asked for. 


Tour 143 LW       Kills   Deaths         K/D
Lancaster III      4269  17204          0.25
Incidently last tour the Lancaster is only behind the P51D in getting the dubious title for most destroyed aircraft.


These are the LW stats I was talking about that were post by a LW player such as yourself.  You havent had one positive thing to say about a post for an arena that you dont even play in.  Contribute in a constructive way on move on.  This is the exact reason most guys play in MW and not LW.

[grumpy37]

PLEASE!  I'm not sure how well the Lancaster is modeled for the game, but I'm pretty sure it was never used as a close support dive bomber, or employed to carpet bomb CVs. I don't think it was ever rated for acrobatics. It -is- a very usefull aircraft, but in reality had such poor defenses that it was limited to night bombing after daylight raids suffered 50%+ casualties. In AH it's practically invulnerable. It's the ONLY bomber that can White Flag a town with a single formation. Not sure what's being done with it in LWA? But I noticed it was perked at 450 points in EWA today. I'd like (at least) to see those people pulling these stunts PAY (stiffly) for the privilege. I'm not sure what the perks earned for killing Lancs are? But they SHOULD be significant.

Also if you had actually read the original post it says nothing about how hard the bomber is to shoot down but how "gamers" use it to "game the game". 

[Karnak]

grumpy37,

The 420 kills to 1409 deaths the Lancaster had in MW Tour 143 sure was better, Kill/Death ratio wise, wasn't it?  Yeesh.

[AKP]

Lets see ... who was it said - "do not suffer fools gladly." ??? Buhler ? Buhler ? Buhler ???

You arent worth my time... thanks.

[grumpy37]

grumpy37,

The 420 kills to 1409 deaths the Lancaster had in MW Tour 143 sure was better, Kill/Death ratio wise, wasn't it?  Yeesh.

you are looking at this from a paper stat and thats it.  Like i said, you need to be in this arena to understand why the wish was made, thats all.  No one else will understand why.  I dont mean to be rude or disrespectful to anyone but it seems LW guys are over looking the entire point of the original post.  It has gotten way off topic as it is. 

[WWhiskey]

It has a .25 kd in late war
It has a .29 kd in mid war
Hardly any difference at all


I shoot them down in late war!!!
I shoot them down in mid war!!!
I even use the same planes.  Jugs, typhoon, mossie, 110
Karnak is right, even if he doesn't fly mid war, if he did fly mid war low numbered side tho, he would have a lot of lanc kills I bet ,,, and it's kd would be more like .25 or less
My guess is that some of the mid war defenders need to get some air combat training and learn how to kill them, then learn some stratigy  and figure out where they are goin to be and be there waiting for them,,, then do some recruiting and find some more help, you could intice them with all the perk points you are currently trying to remove!

[Tank-Ace]

OK, so for those that are saying 'don't perk the lanc'..... why?

1) you say its easy to kill: clearly thats not a big issue for the lanc pilots in MW, or they would be flying something thats has better defensive armament

2) you say its slow, and poor climbing:  Yeah, its a bomber. Most bombers are slow, and ALL but the mossie are poor climbing. But the lanc carries more than double the bomb load of a B-17. All that weight is going to come at a price

3) it IS unbalancing, at least in MW, when the preformance gap is, if not small, at least smaller. WF a town in one pass, destroy all the hangers at a small base (maybe medium or even large base too, not sure), GV's only AA vehicle is the M16.

Yes, perk it in MW. Not heavily perked mind you, but just something like 3-4, maybe even 5 perks. No bomb n' bail if you want to keep your perks, no doing idiotic (if effective) crap with it that will get you killed if you want to keep your perks.

[flatiron1]

Everyone has the same option to do whatever with Lancs. So where is the problem?

[Ack-Ack]

3) it IS unbalancing, at least in MW, when the preformance gap is, if not small, at least smaller. WF a town in one pass, destroy all the hangers at a small base (maybe medium or even large base too, not sure), GV's only AA vehicle is the M16.

The Lancaster is not an unbalancing factor in the MW, it never has been nor will it in the future.


ack-ack

[grumpy37]

Everyone has the same option to do whatever with Lancs. So where is the problem?

LOL  Really?  5 pages of responses and thats all you can come up with?   I would expect a lot more from a daily player in MW even if you are on the side that has the 10-2 advantage, or is that why you dont have a problem with it anyway?

I would push for the lowering of the ENY to 5.  My reason is simple, the ability for 1 player to bring that much ord at one time is equivalent to the typhs cannons or ubber UFO properties the spits have or the reason any other 5 ENY plane has its ENY set to 5.  If you have a double or more the available players to attack you should be limited to a bomber that holds less bombs so you have to put more of your available players in bombers to achieve the same goal.  Isnt this the point of ENY??????  To so called level out the playing field by giving the higher number side so called lower quality or ability planes because their sheer numbers should be able to over come this?  Everyone keeps saying the Lanc has crapy defenses and no one is arguing that point, its the payload that it can carry....  this is what gives it a serious advantage over any other bomber in MW and why its the most used bomber.

[Tank-Ace]

The Lancaster is not an unbalancing factor in the MW, it never has been nor will it in the future.

ack-ack

Its about the only bomber thats used in there.
It can carry almost twice the ordnance of any other bomber (in MW).
It can WF a town in one pass.
Its not a whole hell of a lot more vulnerable than any other bomber, about the only other difference is that it tickles attackers instead of pinching them.

I'll admit that unbalancing might be a bit strong to describe it, but what would you call it

[Ack-Ack]

Its about the only bomber thats used in there.
It can carry almost twice the ordnance of any other bomber (in MW).
It can WF a town in one pass.
Its not a whole hell of a lot more vulnerable than any other bomber, about the only other difference is that it tickles attackers instead of pinching them.

I'll admit that unbalancing might be a bit strong to describe it, but what would you call it

I wouldn't call it anything as it doesn't have a negative effect on the game play in the arena. 

It's vulnerabilities more than offset it's only true asset (bomb load) that hardly make it the uber bomber some are trying to make it out to be.

The only thing that I am getting from that that wish to perk the Lancaster is there are a bunch of people in the MW arena that are utterly clueless on how to intercept, let alone shoot down a Lancaster.

I guess some will always want to perk what they can't shoot down.

ack-ack

[EVZ]

you are looking at this from a paper stat and thats it.  Like i said, you need to be in this arena to understand why the wish was made, thats all.  No one else will understand why.  I dont mean to be rude or disrespectful to anyone but it seems LW guys are over looking the entire point of the original post.  It has gotten way off topic as it is.

That's what these guys do Grump, disrupt for the sake of disrupting ... I got no problem with people who disagree, even if -I- don't see any validity ... They're perfectly welcome to their point of view and their right to present it ... But if I say black, these guys SCREAM WHITE ... If I say white, they scream GREEN ... You may not have noticed, but they just initiated a thread asking that some 7 year old KID be evicted from the BBS, he annoys them.

[AKP]

Its about the only bomber thats used in there.
It can carry almost twice the ordnance of any other bomber (in MW).
It can WF a town in one pass.
Its not a whole hell of a lot more vulnerable than any other bomber, about the only other difference is that it tickles attackers instead of pinching them.

I'll admit that unbalancing might be a bit strong to describe it, but what would you call it

1) Agreed... it is used more than any other bomber in MW.  But that isnt really relevant to the issue.

2) Agreed... it carries more ordinance than anything in ANY arena except the B-29.  

3) Hmmm... not sure on that.  I have never seen a single formation WF a town in one pass.  Not enough of the town is able to be hit in one pass to WF it due to how the town is laid out.  I think what people are saying is a single formation can WF a town on its own... but I am pretty sure it takes at least 2 passes.  

4) That I do disagree with.  The underbelly is totally vulnerable due to no ball turret... but its real weakness lies in 2 areas.  The wing root, and the cockpit.  A good solid cannon hit or two where the wing meets the fuselage will snap it off.  One in the cockpit will blow them up due to the pilot being killed.  They way the cockpit is set up they can easily be hit by a fighter diving on them from just about any angle.  This is different than any other heavy bomber in the game.  Combine that with the .303's instead of .50's... and its a turkey.

Its also been mentioned that it's climb rate is horrible... which it is.  Yes... its due to its payload.  So those somewhat balance each other.  

Its been mentioned that you can land 14,000 damage points in it.  You can do that in a B-17 or a B-24 formation also.   Did it last night as a matter of fact... and it isnt that hard.  

I am not a lancaster fan... I prefer the B-24 for a heavy bomber for its defensive capabilities, and with 12 500lb bombs instead of 8 1000's... I can darn near white flag a town too.  Its not the size of the ordinance that matters when taking out a town.  Its placement and pattern.  It only takes 250lbs of ordinance to drop a building.  A 500lb bomb give you enough firepower to take out 2 or 3 buildings per bomb if they are close enough.  The blast radius on a 1000lb bomb doesnt give you that much more of an advantage when hitting a town.... and the explosive power is wasted.   For those that play for score... try using better placed, smaller bombs on towns... and watch your score go up.

But anyway... my point is that its not the abilities of the lancaster that are causing the problem everyone here is complaining about.  The amount of ords it carries really is overkill... and unneeded just for taking down a town.

Perking it would be a waste in my opinion.  Lowering its ENY to 5 or so?  Not a bad idea.  But other bombers will be used in its place that can just as effectively take down a town... and can defend themselves better.  I dont think it will fix anything.

What would be a good fix... for ALL bombers with an internal bay... it to have the angle at which they can release their bombs limited as they should be.  Every bomber with an internal bay has a maximum dive angle at which bombs can be released, and still clear the bay.  As it is now, you can even release bombs inverted and they still come out.  Try that in real life... dont think so.  If they modeled that in... the days of the "lancstuka" would be over.