Why the Icon Range Change for GV's?

[bmwgs]

I would like to see this, too.

- oldman

Probably about the same chance of finding a story of a Lancaster dive bombing.  And I mean actual nose down dive bombing.   

Fred

[Tilt]

Find me one example of an AA vehicle participating, on the request of, one of the aircraft in the fight.  Just one.  Giving cowards another tool to use will not be good for the game.

I can give sevaral..one indeed over Yugoslavia in an encounter between Yak3's and P38's (that had in error bombed a Russian column) some thing like  6 Yak 3's launched to attack what they thought were 15 P38's (tuned out to be 45  of them in three separate groups at tiered altiudes). Point being that much of the ensuing fight was conducted within range of Russian medium calibre AA (M1939) which  claimed a 38 and damaged another as well as one of the Yaks.

Many Ost front air battles from The Crucible, thru Kursk to Bagration were conducted over and in semi mobile medium calibre AA. (none of them with Wirble winds which never left Germany for the whole of WWII AFAIK)

Having said all that I would agree that GV icons should also be reduced for freindlies (although this will not stop folk running to them), I would even go so far to suggest that land based gun fire be as lethal against freindlies as it is against enemy, that the Mobelwagon and the Sdkfz 251/17 and or a towed 37mm flak (M1939?) be introduced and Wirbles and Ostwinds be perked.

[Butcher]

I can give sevaral..one indeed over Yugoslavia in an encounter between Yak3's and P38's (that had in error bombed a Russian column) some thing like  6 Yak 3's launched to attack what they thought were 15 P38's (tuned out to be 45  of them in three separate groups at tiered altiudes). Point being that much of the ensuing fight was conducted within range of Russian medium calibre AA (M1939) which  claimed a 38 and damaged another as well as one of the Yaks.

Many Ost front air battles from The Crucible, thru Kursk to Bagration were conducted over and in semi mobile medium calibre AA. (none of them with Wirble winds which never left Germany for the whole of WWII AFAIK)

Having said all that I would agree that GV icons should also be reduced for freindlies (although this will not stop folk running to them), I would even go so far to suggest that land based gun fire be as lethal against freindlies as it is against enemy, that the Mobelwagon and the Sdkfz 251/17 and or a towed 37mm flak (M1939?) be introduced and Wirbles and Ostwinds be perked.

well with the addition of 88's now for AT/Puffy ack, and Air to Surface Icon Range reduced to 600 feet, this poses a great risk to pilots under 2k unless there is a storch around, which means ground battles will be left alone, and bases will be much much easier to defend.

I do believe we need more AAA vehicles, one which was a single barrel 20mm, the single 37mm (both were on a sdkfz halftrack) (where wirb and osti is perked), perhaps a russian AAA vehicle in addition to the M-16, it gives an all round "complete" AAA setting.

[Karnak]

I can give sevaral..one indeed over Yugoslavia in an encounter between Yak3's and P38's (that had in error bombed a Russian column) some thing like  6 Yak 3's launched to attack what they thought were 15 P38's (tuned out to be 45  of them in three separate groups at tiered altiudes). Point being that much of the ensuing fight was conducted within range of Russian medium calibre AA (M1939) which  claimed a 38 and damaged another as well as one of the Yaks.

Many Ost front air battles from The Crucible, thru Kursk to Bagration were conducted over and in semi mobile medium calibre AA. (none of them with Wirble winds which never left Germany for the whole of WWII AFAIK)

Having said all that I would agree that GV icons should also be reduced for freindlies (although this will not stop folk running to them), I would even go so far to suggest that land based gun fire be as lethal against freindlies as it is against enemy, that the Mobelwagon and the Sdkfz 251/17 and or a towed 37mm flak (M1939?) be introduced and Wirbles and Ostwinds be perked.

None of those are examples of what I requested.  They are examples of AA vehicles/positions inviting themselves to the fight, something which was often tragic for their own sides.  I want to see an account of an fighter using an AA position to try to down his opponent, asking the AA vehicle to engage.

[Widewing]

I call BS there. If anything it will be somewhat fair now. The planes have had the upper hand for as long as I've been playing and I think it's great that HTC if finally doing something to address the issue, since tank bombing has gotten so out of control.

Who cares about fair? Are we playing school yard marbles?

If you were commanding a Panther in January of 1945, and while crossing an open field spotted enemy Jabos circling, how does that differ from what we see in Aces High? Panzer Divisions couldn't move by day.. It's historic, it's how is was. Now, largely due to whiners, you're getting a break (or so you think). Won't make a rats backside of difference because we'll just treat every tank like a Wirble. Wirbles were always my preferred target anyway. I've already practiced this by turning off enemy icons.

[SmokinLoon]

Rondar and Smokingloon,

That kind of communication did not exist, and largely does not exist now.  Marking their positions?  Do that and the enemy can spot you too.  Wirbelwinds and the like were not there to support their airforce, they are there for the protection of the army.  Even if they, which they did not, had radio contact, what are they going to say?  "Bf109, drag that Spitfire over here!" "Ah, Wirbelwind, where is "over here" exactly?"  "Over by the big copse of trees, by the hill with the large oak." "Um, right."

I'm speaking of air to ground communications, not the role of the AA to allied aircraft.  Low flying aircraft is going to have communications with allied ground forces, be it direct or be it indirect via localized field HQ's.

I think you've already said it is over for air to ground operations before the fat lady has sung.  Try it out, you might be pleasantly surprised.  Instead of seeing their icon at 1500 yards, you're seeing their tracers which are actually easier to see.   

[Karnak]

I'm speaking of air to ground communications, not the role of the AA to allied aircraft.  Low flying aircraft is going to have communications with allied ground forces, be it direct or be it indirect via localized field HQ's.

I think you've already said it is over for air to ground operations before the fat lady has sung.  Try it out, you might be pleasantly surprised.  Instead of seeing their icon at 1500 yards, you're seeing their tracers which are actually easier to see.   

I don't have a problem with the reduction in icon range.  I have a problem with the fact that the friendlies are not going to have an icon range reduction.  Already players use friendly Wirbelwinds as mobile safe spots to cower.  They should not be able to pin point where a friendly Wirbelwind is any better than I can pin point where an enemy Wirbelwind is.  As to the radio communications, well, guess what, those are provided in AH and if the Wirbelwind wants to ask the Spitfire to drag the guy behind him over he can do so, and then have fun saying where to drag it.

[ARSNishi]

Who cares about fair? Are we playing school yard marbles?

If you were commanding a Panther in January of 1945, and while crossing an open field spotted enemy Jabos circling, how does that differ from what we see in Aces High? Panzer Divisions couldn't move by day.. It's historic, it's how is was. Now, largely due to whiners, you're getting a break (or so you think). Won't make a rats backside of difference because we'll just treat every tank like a Wirble. Wirbles were always my preferred target anyway. I've already practiced this by turning off enemy icons.

Allied air supremacy being what it was in january 1945, I dare say any panther commander worth his salt would have thought long and hard before crossing a big open field and we can be certain that said panther commander would not have to worry about a big bright red icon giving his position away to the p 47 circling overhead.  To your credit you have chosen to adapt, improvise and overcome this change, unlike many others who are horrified by the prospect of actually having to put forth a little effort to earn their kills.....  for a change.

~S~  Nishizwa

[BaldEagl]

As I posted in another thread:

The thing is GV battles draw bombt*>ds like sh*t draws flies.  And why?  Easy kills and your name in lights.  There's nothing easier in the game than dropping a bomb on a tank that can't defend itself from it.  Yet those that do are awarded the same perks, points and accolades as someone who dukes it out in a one on many fighter fight taking multiple scalps.  I have to ask who's more skilled or deserves the higher reward?

So here's the idea part.  Reduce the kills awarded for bombing tanks.  Count each as 1/4, 1/3 or 1/2 a kill with comensurate points and perks.  The guys who are there to legitimately break a spawn camp or fly air support for their GV's will still be there but I bet there won't be nearly as many of them.  It will take more than a couple of bombs to land two kills/sortie.  The GVers will have more fun and the bomblets will be rewarded comensurate with their skill level.

I dislike flying and fighting against actual airborn opponenets who can fight back to earn my kills while others go the easy route with the same final results and without opposition.  I used to bomb GV's so I know.  I did it all for score and K/D.

Now I take only a few per camp.  There's just no challenge in it and it griefs the fun for the GVers.  So you attack bomber guys go thump your chests about your awsome skill levels.  Your stats tell the story of your true timidity and lack of skill if anyone really cares to look.

[SmokinLoon]

I don't have a problem with the reduction in icon range.  I have a problem with the fact that the friendlies are not going to have an icon range reduction.  Already players use friendly Wirbelwinds as mobile safe spots to cower.  They should not be able to pin point where a friendly Wirbelwind is any better than I can pin point where an enemy Wirbelwind is.  As to the radio communications, well, guess what, those are provided in AH and if the Wirbelwind wants to ask the Spitfire to drag the guy behind him over he can do so, and then have fun saying where to drag it.

That is my point in particular: allied aircraft and gv's are going to know where each other are at due to radio commutations or mission briefings before mission launch. 

[bmwgs]

Posted by Accident.....  Can't figure out how to delete it.....   
Fred

[Raphael]

As I posted in another thread:

I dislike flying and fighting against actual airborn opponenets who can fight back to earn my kills while others go the easy route with the same final results and without opposition.  I used to bomb GV's so I know.  I did it all for score and K/D.

Now I take only a few per camp.  There's just no challenge in it and it griefs the fun for the GVers.  So you attack bomber guys go thump your chests about your awsome skill levels.  Your stats tell the story of your true timidity and lack of skill if anyone really cares to look.

Wait a second, what about us (few) dedicated tank busters? we have to deal going all the way with a slow IL-2 or weak Hurri D or any dedicated attack plane (think stuke as example). we have to deal with airborne interceptors and also if you up one single flakk it will make hell for us to get those tanks and give proper support. so in this case tankers have no reason to complain, all they have to do is have ONE flakker with the group. as I don't have anything to complain aswell since all I have to do is bring fighter cover (and thrust me is not easy to find people who want to protect IL-2s from fighters).
 I never do it to grief people, I like tank busting and I will not lie, is nice to see the name in lights after flying 2 sectors in the IL-2 and working carefully breaking an entire GV formation. Some people get mad, of course it happens, everyone gets mad in this game once in a while. some even reupped on a plane to make sure I wouldn't land my kills  no biggie.

[Karnak]

That is my point in particular: allied aircraft and gv's are going to know where each other are at due to radio commutations or mission briefings before mission launch.  

Bullhocky.

There is no way in hell that a mission briefing in WWII would have accurately informed a pilot of the exact locations of his tanks and AA vehicles.  Nor would the use of radio, which as I noted we don't have to simulate with longer ranged icons because we have the radio communications in game.

[icepac]

[Tilt]

Nothing wrong with bombing, rocketing and straffing Gv's IMO.......all part of the game.

There is no such thing as only GV on GV action unless its hidden away in some in accessable area of the map.

I am not a fan of the use of low level formations for the purpose and support stuff like forced F6 use for level bombers/formations.

The subject re interaction of air combat and ground AA is boiling down to details and away from the generality. However the habit of air craft to run and  hide in its own AA was common. Infact many a FW189 or 190F8 ran for its AA as did many an IL2. Radio communication or no, they had been briefed as to where their front lines were and their best egress routes.