Question for VBrigade guys

[Daddkev]

  One F-8 with Bomb and 12 rockets can de-ack and pork ords and drop radar! Quit whining people...im Naked!

[grizz441]

There are what, six, eight ack to take down in town and run troops? Not much of a defense when all the hangers are still down.

You're making it sound like everything pops after they take a base. I mean, you already said they don't defend. Even with hangers up, just kill the town ack and run troops back in.

The problem is the country that just lost the base, the defenders, if any, immediately wander off and give up.

It sounds like you don't want a fight and make it easier for a base re-capture.

You sure do make it sound easy to recapture a base after it has been captured.  Let me break it down.

Lets say there are 8 town acks, that sounds right to me.  And the hangars may or may not be down.  If they are, one usually pops within 5 minutes of the capture.  It is nearly impossible to cap the base that was just captured in its "defenseless state" (quoted for sarcasm).  By the time you even get a chance to start taking a good portion of the field ack down, the hangars are up.  By the time you take down all the field ack in the town, buildings may start to pop.  Once buildings start to pop, it is a disaster to try to capture a base because you don't know what percentage the town is going to be at upon capture.  So you might say, well you should start taking more buildings down then.  Yep that's what you have to do, we have to take down a) all town ack b) destroy town buildings as they sporadically pop at any given moment c) Fend off fighters upping from a full auto acked airfield.  

Now, how many people do you think it will take to recapture a base that was just captured?  You think 3 guys can do it?  Pwah, try 8-10, which in itself could be argued to be a base taking horde.  And how long does it take to organize 8-10 guys?  And keeping that time it takes to organize a counter offensive in mind, time is of the essence!.  If you take too long, which, is likely the case, the town and base will be fully up.  You might as well start from scratch.  Typically it will take 5-10 minutes to organize 8-10 guys in a mission.  So lets say 10 minute till launch + 5 minute to get there.  That's 15 minutes right there.  Every single hangar will be up.  Every auto ack is up.  Every town ack is up.  Town building will start to pop within the next 15 minute interval at any given time.

Imo, there should be a minimum down time that a base's defense is deactivated for after captured, which is in a neutral "up for grabs" state.  The country that just captured the base can run supply goons to resupply it and cut this time down.  I'd say 20 minute down time, each supply goon takes 5 minutes off wait time.

One of the broken functions within Aces High game play (although there are many issues), is how bases change hands.  This interaction promotes, no.. "promotes" is too weak of a word, BREEDS the rolling horde mentality.  It makes little sense to stick around and defend when it only takes one or two random guys to fend off any non horde-like recapture attempt.  

[Daddkev]

 

[JUGgler]

There are what, six, eight ack to take down in town and run troops? Not much of a defense when all the hangers are still down.

You're making it sound like everything pops after they take a base. I mean, you already said they don't defend. Even with hangers up, just kill the town ack and run troops back in.

The problem is the country that just lost the base, the defenders, if any, immediately wander off and give up.

It sounds like you don't want a fight and make it easier for a base re-capture.




wrongway

I agree with Grizz, it aint that easy or it would be happening at the same rate as the initial horde capture.

A "dead, unusable" base is a tasty morsel for quite a few folks, and a liability (at least in pride) for those who just captured it!

I say , dead base after capture for 20 -30 minutes, NO ack, NO hangars, NO buildings pop! Add Grizz' idea allowing the country who just captured it to mitigate the (down time) by re supplying the base to make it fully functional "quicker" <-- That is a nice touch Grizz!




JUGgler

[Rob52240]

I wanted a squad on squad duel with those characters, and thought we had it worked out to do it. Apparently a No show.

Theres my 2 cents.  Good luck with actually getting any kind of reply from a brainstem over there.

Who did you talk to? Because this is the 1st I've heard of it.

[Rob52240]

I wanted a squad on squad duel with those characters, and thought we had it worked out to do it. Apparently a No show.

Theres my 2 cents.  Good luck with actually getting any kind of reply from a brainstem over there.

Who did you talk to? Because this is the 1st I've heard of it.

As far as Grizz's question goes....  It all depends.  We've taken bases and began moving on the next one only to have 2 enemy players take it back by having one deack the town while it's still flagged and the other drive in with an M3.

I'd be up for keeping the ack down if there were a way to get rearmed or replaned without getting vulched or waiting for the hangers to come back up.

[bustr]

With maps as large as they are, defending just captured territory is a waste of time if base capturing efficiency and results are the primary focus.

I'm seeing a new factor emerging in the vBoys strategy that may reflect the fact that some of them are becoming better at personal ACM. They are not wasting time on attacks that meet emidiate strong resistance. Instead they seem to have a secondary and tertiary target plan as a fall back to divert attention and enemy resources for up to an hour to their real intent. Granted this is with their full compliment online. You are seeing vestiges of this when it's just a few of them in how they adapt to loosing in furballs.

Large maps are conducive to base capturing with no thought to defending your spoils becasue thats not an incentive by virtue of the scale. Small maps have a similar problem with scale which favors the vBoys smash and grab style becasue the reset is realy a base grab foot race.

If you want them to stick around and defend their just captureed territory. You will have to change the scale and reward system in concert with what the ultimate end game is for the effort. It has to cost as much not to defend as it does to capture while tieing it into winning the war. But, then in a sneaky way you are asking them to hang around to defend/furball in one place against superior players for an extended period of time via this kind of a change. That does not seem to be why they play this game though.

Still the base and town staying as dead as it's been pounded down to when captured for the completion of it's regeneration cycle would be a start. That would place the new owner in a precarious position if they didn't have assets in place for the defence period. This is the kind of thing the vBoys would leverage to impliment ownership flip greifing by hiding M3 in the bushes and mass suicide C47 NOE followup raids. Large maps may never get reset by players again if the current dynamics are left in place with this being the only change.

[dirtdart]

Auto Ack should stay down for 45 minutes no matter what.  Manned Ack stays down 15 minutes, no matter what.  The rate of repair of the field and it's services are contingent on time or the receipt of supplies.  I like the idea Grizz.  +1. 

Conversely, I suspect it will slow the rate of map changes as it becomes more tedious to retain captured fields, or sustain tempo of operations.  Since I flat despise a couple of the maps, I just through that out as a consideration. 

[Rob52240]

I like it when the maps stay fresh.  Last night was a prime example of a stagnation map.  All momentum stops once the countries are back to their original front lines.

[Ardy123]

Auto Ack should stay down for 45 minutes no matter what.  Manned Ack stays down 15 minutes, no matter what.  The rate of repair of the field and it's services are contingent on time or the receipt of supplies.  I like the idea Grizz.  +1. 

Conversely, I suspect it will slow the rate of map changes as it becomes more tedious to retain captured fields, or sustain tempo of operations.  Since I flat despise a couple of the maps, I just through that out as a consideration. 

I always felt that too. The timer starts on repairs, and nothing should be expedited because a base 'changed hands'.

[Traveler]

Just curious, and this is not intended in the least bit to be anything other than getting your 2 cents:

Would you guys be for or against having town ack and base ack stay down for a determined period of time after a capture, OR, on the same timer that the ack were on when you killed them, before they spawn up again?  In other words, would you embrace the challenge of having to temporarily defend weakened territory you just captured, or do you prefer it the way it is?  Would this additional commitment require bases be slightly easier to capture?  Or are things too easy as is?

This is a great question.  Speaking for the 113th Lucky Strikes.  We would like to see a shift in game dynamics.  We have always thought that a capturing army taking a base may not arrive in force with enough spare parts , engineers or gun, to bring up all the ack at each base or Town.  Perhaps in that line of thinking that only half the town ack could be replaced or repaired until re-supply.  But we also believe that the original timer on gun, building, hangers should stay in place. There should not be an additional penalty of down time because the you captured the base.

I agree with Grizz, it aint that easy or it would be happening at the same rate as the initial horde capture.

A "dead, unusable" base is a tasty morsel for quite a few folks, and a liability (at least in pride) for those who just captured it!

I say , dead base after capture for 20 -30 minutes, NO ack, NO hangars, NO buildings pop! Add Grizz' idea allowing the country who just captured it to mitigate the (down time) by re supplying the base to make it fully functional "quicker" <-- That is a nice touch Grizz!

Again the 113th would want to see the original down timers in place on each item destroyed, however, an adjustment to game play,  extend the down time of Hangers with the ability to shorten that down time by re-supply.  With the ability to shorten down time of buildings in the town by re-supply of field supplies from any field including the towns own airfield.   The newly captured Airfield could only be re-supplied as it is now with supplies from a different airfield.  Perhaps with a new resource such as Engineering Troops to rebuild.

[RTHolmes]

You sure do make it sound easy to recapture a base after it has been captured.

if the vGuys took it, it is. roll anything with cannons, in the 4mins it takes you to get there they have all landed and moved onto the next base. they cant up to defend because the hangars they dropped will all be down for another 10mins or so, the town for another 35mins. so deack the town and wait for your M3 to arrive. 2 guys, job done.

(this isnt just theory btw, coupla weeks ago me and another knit followed the NOE bish around and retook 2 bases exactly this way. could have done the 3rd too but he had to log and no one else could be bothered to roll an M3 for a capture. such is life on knits )

[grizz441]

if the vGuys took it, it is. roll anything with cannons, in the 4mins it takes you to get there they have all landed and moved onto the next base. they cant up to defend because the hangars they dropped will all be down for another 10mins or so, the town for another 35mins. so deack the town and wait for your M3 to arrive. 2 guys, job done.

(this isnt just theory btw, coupla weeks ago me and another knit followed the NOE bish around and retook 2 bases exactly this way. could have done the 3rd too but he had to log and no one else could be bothered to roll an M3 for a capture. such is life on knits )

I'm not saying it cannot be done if the opposing side gives the utmost negligence to the sneak attack.  But just one guy, not even associated with the rolling horde, can up and thwart a retake.  Unless of course like you said, the hangars are down, but that would require they dropped hangars and captured the base almost immediately.  Your window for opportunity for such a sneak in most applications is almost non existent.  Well done on the recapture though. 

[RTHolmes]

Well done on the recapture though. 

thanks, although the victory felt rather hollow because it only involved killing a few auto acks and ... well you know

[The Fugitive]

Who did you talk to? Because this is the 1st I've heard of it.

As far as Grizz's question goes....  It all depends.  We've taken bases and began moving on the next one only to have 2 enemy players take it back by having one deack the town while it's still flagged and the other drive in with an M3.

I'd be up for keeping the ack down if there were a way to get rearmed or replaned without getting vulched or waiting for the hangers to come back up.

There is a way, don't take everything down during your attack! Yes I know this might make things a bit more difficult to get the capture, but it would make things much easier to defend. Of course you could wipe the place out like normal but then holding it would be a bit tough. Such a dilemma, and a great way to create combat!