Author Topic: Argentina is not alone  (Read 2699 times)

Offline pembquist

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #60 on: February 08, 2012, 07:23:50 PM »
Or, we realize the mistakes of the past and continue on the path toward global prosperity and freedom.

-Penguin

That would be the preferred outcome but I'll settle for valium in the water supply and free xboxes for everyone.
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Offline coombz

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #61 on: February 08, 2012, 07:25:56 PM »
On the grisly subject of war I think it was George Carlin that said we all like to fight and we have a war and get all upset and say "ooh that was terrible lets not do that again" then a few years go by and we get all tough and want to fight again. 

best George Carlin quotes here :D   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

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I'll be seeing you face to face possibly next month.

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #62 on: February 08, 2012, 07:38:55 PM »
Penguin, I'm just impressed. Either you are a briliant little budding Keynsian at 15. Or you are really 50+ and still pretty good. Or you are part of the Obama-list serve, in which case I'm disappointed. If you need to ask what the list-serve is, that's a good sign.

Agreed on the Keynesian idea causing inflation, though that isn't here in full force yet. If they can't manage the next step it will. As for the supply side not working either, Gingrich and Clinton pulled that one off rather well. Pretty decent economy with spending controlled. The big criticism of Reaganonmics, where supply side came into lingo, does not accurately reflect spending increases.

You have some pretty prescriptive ideas for how to handle the economy with targeted tax cuts and hikes. There is a massive risk of hubris in this. People far, far more intelligent and with far better and timely information have been down this road before. It has not worked for them, why do you think you could pull it off? Obama stimulus 1.0 was actually Bush stimulus 5.0. Each case was bigger, more targeted and better then the last. Between Bush and Obama we have $9 trillion of stimulus and here we are, real unemployment hovering around 15%: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/print.pl/news.release/empsit.t15.htm (U6 is the accurate number, though economists who have been critical of how the BLS calculates numbers note that using methodology prior to Clinton's adjustment in 1994 place full unemployment at roughly 22%.)

Quick note. Fiscal policy would be the Fed buyback program, or keeping interest rates at Zero. A great example of Monetary Policy designed to spur targeted aggragate demand is the pathetic "Cash for Clunkers." Monetary policy puts money into the overall economy, fiscal does it primarily through appropriations.
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #63 on: February 08, 2012, 07:39:55 PM »
 :lol Venezuela will aid Argentina...

The Argies;

Bad econonic decisions ruining your country? Want to ge elected again?
Simples, Drum up support by having a bash at Britain.
Gotta love the 'promise of revenge' vote.
It worked for Adolf Hitler.



Hugo Chavez;

Military Dictator. People always agree, even when your catastophically wrong and don't have the means.
Simply - Deluded
It didn't work for Adolf Hilter... Barbarossa anyone?



I say The British have been very polite over this, as always. I know for a fact if an American was incharge the words "Bring it" and "Biatch" would most certainly be used.
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #64 on: February 08, 2012, 07:41:13 PM »
Or, we realize the mistakes of the past and continue on the path toward global prosperity and freedom.

-Penguin

Market liberalization since the late 1970's has helped tens of millions climb out of the grinding poverty created by central planners and all their grand designs. India is revolutionizing itself. China has had 300 million plus enter into rough parity with West middle class. Mistakes of the past include insistance that a few can possibly know all things for all people.

Boo
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline Toad

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #65 on: February 08, 2012, 07:49:54 PM »
Political threads are OK now?
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline LCADolby

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2012, 07:52:54 PM »
Political threads are OK now?
If it wasn't for Politics, AcesHigh wouldn't exist  :D
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"BE a man and shoot me in the back" - pez

Offline M0nkey_Man

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2012, 07:55:35 PM »
If it wasn't for Politics, AcesHigh wouldn't exist  :D
^this. Hope they don't lock this thread, i'm actually having fun reading it. :aok
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Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2012, 07:59:54 PM »
I wouldn't say this is political, economic and no one is throwing anything partisan. Should be ok, but that's just me.

Boo
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline Melvin

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2012, 07:59:54 PM »
Political threads are OK now?

Well in that case...

America = Vinnie Barbarino

U.K. = Arnold Horshack

Argentina = Freddie "Boom Boom" Washington

With a special appearance by Hugo Chavez as Juan Epstein.



Bring it biatches!
See Rule #4

Offline mthrockmor

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2012, 08:01:14 PM »
Well in that case...

America = Vinnie Barbarino

U.K. = Arnold Horshack

Iran = Freddie "Boom Boom" Washington



Bring it biatches!

 :rofl :rofl
No poor dumb bastard wins a war by dying for his country, he wins by making the other poor, dumb, bastard die for his.
George "Blood n Guts" Patton

Offline Melvin

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2012, 08:02:28 PM »
I forgot this thread was about the Argies and some worthless island.


Programming subject to change.
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Offline SmokinLoon

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2012, 08:16:01 PM »
Didn't the British offer independence to the Falkland Islands and they chose to stay a part of the United Kingdom?
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Offline Penguin

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2012, 08:43:01 PM »
Penguin, I'm just impressed. Either you are a briliant little budding Keynsian at 15. Or you are really 50+ and still pretty good. Or you are part of the Obama-list serve, in which case I'm disappointed. If you need to ask what the list-serve is, that's a good sign.

Agreed on the Keynesian idea causing inflation, though that isn't here in full force yet. If they can't manage the next step it will. As for the supply side not working either, Gingrich and Clinton pulled that one off rather well. Pretty decent economy with spending controlled. The big criticism of Reaganonmics, where supply side came into lingo, does not accurately reflect spending increases.

You have some pretty prescriptive ideas for how to handle the economy with targeted tax cuts and hikes. There is a massive risk of hubris in this. People far, far more intelligent and with far better and timely information have been down this road before. It has not worked for them, why do you think you could pull it off? Obama stimulus 1.0 was actually Bush stimulus 5.0. Each case was bigger, more targeted and better then the last. Between Bush and Obama we have $9 trillion of stimulus and here we are, real unemployment hovering around 15%: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/print.pl/news.release/empsit.t15.htm (U6 is the accurate number, though economists who have been critical of how the BLS calculates numbers note that using methodology prior to Clinton's adjustment in 1994 place full unemployment at roughly 22%.)

Quick note. Fiscal policy would be the Fed buyback program, or keeping interest rates at Zero. A great example of Monetary Policy designed to spur targeted aggragate demand is the pathetic "Cash for Clunkers." Monetary policy puts money into the overall economy, fiscal does it primarily through appropriations.

I am, in fact, 15, and I read an economics textbook for fun at night (no joke).  I have almost every theory in there memorized, but they never get old for some reason; each time I read them, I find something new.  I guess that's why the debate still rages; if there were one single idea that solved all the problems, then there'd be nothing left to argue.  On a side note, is it Key-knee-zian or Kay-knee-zian?  I say it the first way, but the teacher says it the other.  I certainly hope that I'm not on anyone's list-serve; I heard of one guy who made this tiny (I'm talking like $5) contribution to the Republican party, and his mailbox has been overflowing with ads ever since! :O

My idea for the stimulus-hike system would be for the government to buy low (buy stock) and sell high (sell stock), but I don't know if they could then justify having insider information like they do now.  If they could keep the insider information, though, then they could avoid the efficient market hypothesis.  Unfortunately, that would then circumvent the fundamental principle that makes capitalism itself possible: The rule of law.  If the government rose above the law (by giving itself the right to insider information while barring others from doing so in its own self-interest), then the risk of hubris could approach infinity as time approached five minutes later.  Dang, you have a point there.  However, the government could treat its insider trading like its monopoly on violence: necessary for survival.  Then things might get better.

Perhaps I've tried to shoehorn New Trade Theory into internal economics.  The big issue with it was that of hubris.  However, if it worked for Japan's auto industry, then perhaps it could work here as well.  Now my thought would be that instead of just adjusting taxes, the government would use direct transfer payments (loans, not grants) that hopeful start-ups would compete for in order to maintain a low barrier to entry in nascent fields.  As collateral for these loans, the start-ups would give the government stock.  However, the risk of hubris remains as the government continues to act on the market.  However, the fundamental assumption of the existence and degree of market imperfection remains central to such ideas.

I don't know how much longer we can discuss the topic of government intervention in a forum that bans politics, though.  Perhaps if we refrain from referencing the present the discussion can avoid breaking the rules.

-Penguin

Offline wil3ur

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Re: Argentina is not alone
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2012, 08:52:27 PM »
Well in that case...

America = Vinnie Barbarino

U.K. = Arnold Horshack

Argentina = Freddie "Boom Boom" Washington

With a special appearance by Hugo Chavez as Juan Epstein.



Bring it biatches!

OOOOOOOOOOH!!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOH!!!!
"look at me I am making a derogatory remark to the OP"