damage

[colmbo]

All the extra metal that would fully feather your prop is heavy and when gliding you want to reduce the weight by as much as possible so single engine aircraft typically don't have fully-feathering props. Now technically you would still want to feather your prop as much as possible but because in that position it will be windmilling it would still be creating a lot of drag. Letting your prop windmill is one of the worst thing you can do (as I explained above) therefor most aircraft manufacturers design their governors to move the prop to the opposite of feathering position. This will significantly help you stop the prop. When you don't have the option to fully feather the prop keeping the blades in an unfeathered position and stationary is much better than keeping them in an almost feathered positioned and windmilling.
Some aircraft manufacturers still give the single engine aircraft the ability to fully feather the prop, I believe Beechcraft did that on the T-6. So it's debatable on what is better, but most single engine aircraft can not fully-feather their prop. 

You've never lost an engine have you. 

While stopping the prop would be nice it really isn't practical and greatly increases the risk of a stall/spin.  The prop won't stop until you are below flying speed on many aircraft (depends on the engine/prop weight/etc).  On the 182 and 206 the prop would stop after touchdown and slowing -- I know this from actually making deadstick landings in both aircraft types.  Anyone telling you to stop the prop has most likely never actually lost an engine and experienced how the engine/prop/aircraft perform.  While your putzing about trying to get the prop stopped you're wasting time and altitude you should be using to find a place to safely put the airplane on the ground while trying to restart the engine (if appropriate).

As you said most props will fail to the low pitch/high RPM positiion -- but they will not go beyond the low pitch stop.  The low pitch INCREASES prop RPM so to reduce drag you need to reduce prop RPM which you can do if you still have enough oil/oil pressue to operate the prop.

The T6 Texan II is a turbine which is a completely different animal and not applicable to this conversation.

[colmbo]

my point is that currently the game model is either an oil hit, radiator hit, or a catastrophic engine failure that leaves you with no power. durring the war there were many cases of engine damage to cylinders (particularly radial engines) that would either stall the engine and would need to be restarted, or would allow it to run at a decreased capacity. many a good pilot could restart an engine with some fiddling and get it to run with even chunks missing form the block. i partially dislike all the autimation in the game and would like to see more control over aircraft systems.  may be a bit larger learning curve but once you get a hang on it, there would be a lot more to squeeze out of the airframe.

The kind of damage that will kill your engine is also going to make the possibility of fire very likely.  Anytime to take parts off an engine you are probably going to lose oil and/or fuel which creates an extreme fire hazard.  Restarting the engine just might start you on fire --- not a good thing.  Unless it's quit because you're run it out of gas or turned the mags off you will most likely leave it off. 

[Brownien]

i was thinking more of throttle, rpm, prop pitch, and mixture. as for ignition timing, that was controlled mechanically, superchargers are mechanically driven by the engine although it can be to different stages and turbos being controlled by exaust flow. and as for detonation, this can be prevented from the use of mixture management and water injection.
im sure there would be some way to have an optional assist on systems management that could be turned off for those that want the full experience and realism.
-any damage to the engine that resulted in loss of fuel would most likely be directly from the manifold or a damaged cylinder, both would only result in possible poofs of flame but not a sustained fire. thats what im talking about when trying to restart, not if a carb is hit or a fuel line or supercharger, which could result in a sustained fire. but i mean when i try to restart not even the starter motor will turn it over.

[MachFly]

You've never lost an engine have you. 

While stopping the prop would be nice it really isn't practical and greatly increases the risk of a stall/spin.  The prop won't stop until you are below flying speed on many aircraft (depends on the engine/prop weight/etc).  On the 182 and 206 the prop would stop after touchdown and slowing -- I know this from actually making deadstick landings in both aircraft types.  Anyone telling you to stop the prop has most likely never actually lost an engine and experienced how the engine/prop/aircraft perform.  While your putzing about trying to get the prop stopped you're wasting time and altitude you should be using to find a place to safely put the airplane on the ground while trying to restart the engine (if appropriate).

As you said most props will fail to the low pitch/high RPM positiion -- but they will not go beyond the low pitch stop.  The low pitch INCREASES prop RPM so to reduce drag you need to reduce prop RPM which you can do if you still have enough oil/oil pressue to operate the prop.

The T6 Texan II is a turbine which is a completely different animal and not applicable to this conversation.

No I haven't. I've shut down engines on multi-engine aircraft and had an oil leak on a single engine ones but never lost an engine completely.

I think depending on your altitude you might still want to stop the prop. My policy for single engine aircraft is if your above 5K AGL and you can't get your engine to re-start you should stop the prop as it will increase your glide distance. If your bellow 5K AGL then as you said it starts to become dangerous and you wont gain much but stopping to prop so bellow 5K AGL you should keep it windmilling.
I also believe that in order to get your PPL you should be required to demonstrate a clean power off stall with a power off recovery and spins so you would be [more] ready for such situations. 


I don't have any experience with turboprops, why is it a different story? You have the same prop, it's just that the thing that's powering it is different but that should not be a factor. 

[colmbo]

I think depending on your altitude you might still want to stop the prop. My policy for single engine aircraft is if your above 5K AGL and you can't get your engine to re-start you should stop the prop as it will increase your glide distance. If your bellow 5K AGL then as you said it starts to become dangerous and you wont gain much but stopping to prop so bellow 5K AGL you should keep it windmilling.
I also believe that in order to get your PPL you should be required to demonstrate a clean power off stall with a power off recovery and spins so you would be [more] ready for such situations. 


I don't have any experience with turboprops, why is it a different story? You have the same prop, it's just that the thing that's powering it is different but that should not be a factor. 

The first time you lose an engine and attempt to stop the prop you're policy will be quickly revised.  In something like a J-3, Champ, maybe a 150 or 152 you might be able to get the prop stopped...anything with much higher performance engine or higher stall speed it's not going to happen.  Like I said about the 182 and 206...I was on the ground before the prop stopped...at speeds to low to maintain flight. 

You should go try your idea before having an actual engine loss.  Try it under controlled conditions instead of when it really matters.

[MachFly]

The first time you lose an engine and attempt to stop the prop you're policy will be quickly revised.  In something like a J-3, Champ, maybe a 150 or 152 you might be able to get the prop stopped...anything with much higher performance engine or higher stall speed it's not going to happen.  Like I said about the 182 and 206...I was on the ground before the prop stopped...at speeds to low to maintain flight.  

You should go try your idea before having an actual engine loss.  Try it under controlled conditions instead of when it really matters.

I see your point.

[icepac]

I only try to stop the prop if the huge altitude I lose doing it is offset by my being at 30,000 feet.

Depending on what you are flying and how high you are, there is a certain altitude that stopping the prop gives a longer glide.

[hitech]

I agree colmbo: I have had 3 engine outs, All i got restarted, but stopping prop was not exactly a thing I would wish to try.

1. Do to inverted flight on wrong tank.
2. Do to spinner explosively departing airplane followed by A shaking I never wish to feel again.
3. Do to mechanical fuel pump fail. Only time I got clearance to fly over center of DFW.

I'm glad I never had to land with no power.

HiTech

[MachFly]

So since you guys disagree with my idea of stopping the prop, what's the point of designing a governor that will not feather the blades when you loose oil pressure?

I can thing of two reasons, making it easier to re-start the engine after it fails and if your governor will fail you will atleast have power. But I don't think those two reasons justify not feathering the prop. 

[MK-84]

So since you guys disagree with my idea of stopping the prop, what's the point of designing a governor that will not feather the blades when you loose oil pressure?

I can thing of two reasons, making it easier to re-start the engine after it fails and if your governor will fail you will atleast have power. But I don't think those two reasons justify not feathering the prop. 

Those "guys" are actual pilots

I'm no expert but trying to start an engine that "stopped" like you suggest would be a hell of alot harder than if it is already spinning.

[MachFly]

Those "guys" are actual pilots

I'm no expert but trying to start an engine that "stopped" like you suggest would be a hell of alot harder than if it is already spinning.

So am I  

And I don't think I ever suggested that you should start an stopped engine. If you want I can clarify what I said but I'm not sure which one of my posts you misunderstood. 

[kvuo75]

i was thinking more of throttle, rpm, prop pitch, and mixture.

in game the only thing we don't control is mixture.

[JOACH1M]

how about a sputtering engine... 

[Karnak]

In the book Terror in the Starboard Seat there is a description of a Mossie having both engines shut down due to the crew forgetting to change fuel tanks.  In the ensuing period there wasn't any mention of feathering the props, just the frantic efforts to restart the engines, which they did manage.  Now I know they weren't very high up and the type of engine outage they had was conducive to restarting the engines, so it may not be a valid event per this thread.

[MachFly]

In the book Terror in the Starboard Seat there is a description of a Mossie having both engines shut down due to the crew forgetting to change fuel tanks.  In the ensuing period there wasn't any mention of feathering the props, just the frantic efforts to restart the engines, which they did manage.  Now I know they weren't very high up and the type of engine outage they had was conducive to restarting the engines, so it may not be a valid event per this thread.

If your about to re-start it there is no point of feathing the prop. You feather the prop as a last ditch maneuver so if would provide minimal drag after you lost all hope for restarting it.