damage

[Brownien]

engine damage! ya get hit and it dies. what do you do? glide as far as you can and crash land. but what if you could attempt to restart the engine? through a series of engine control manipulations to say find a 'sweet spot' where it will restart and run at say half power? or at a lower power based on the amount of damage? would be neat to be able to at least try to limp home. possibly also have the option to feather the prop if need be? could be exciting! 

[Karnak]

No amount of engine controls will put the oil back in or reconnect piston rods or such that have been blown apart.

I know that the multi-engined aircraft in AH already feather their props on engines that have been shut off.  Single engined aircraft did not have the ability to feather their props.

[MachFly]

That depends on what's damaged. I like this idea but it will be too hard to implement and wont make a significant difference in the end.

-1

Single engined aircraft did not have the ability to feather their props.

Sure they do. As long as the aircraft has a constant speed prop it can be feathered, makes no difference on the number of engines the aircraft has.

[guncrasher]

brownien as much as I love your idea and lots of other guys do as we have all lost engines on the way home or so close to the pavement that it's frustrating sometimes.  well the idea of playing this game is for things to work like they did in ww2.  and engines in ww2 that got hit lost chunks out of them or oil or whatever and no amount of pulling or yanking would fix that.  so basically as much as I would love to have the ability to do it, I love the fact that we pretend to fly just like real airplanes do.

for lots me and lots of guys it's not the getting back home that is important, it's the actual flying against other airplanes that is the main thing .


semp

[MachFly]

brownien as much as I love your idea and lots of other guys do as we have all lost engines on the way home or so close to the pavement that it's frustrating sometimes.  well the idea of playing this game is for things to work like they did in ww2.  and engines in ww2 that got hit lost chunks out of them or oil or whatever and no amount of pulling or yanking would fix that.  so basically as much as I would love to have the ability to do it, I love the fact that we pretend to fly just like real airplanes do.

for lots me and lots of guys it's not the getting back home that is important, it's the actual flying against other airplanes that is the main thing .


semp

The engine does not need all it's cylinders working to provide power. As long as the damaged part of the engine will not block the rest of the engine from moving the engine will still work.  

[Karnak]

Sure they do. As long as the aircraft has a constant speed prop it can be feathered, makes no difference on the number of engines the aircraft has.

My understanding is that they did not have that ability during WWII.  The designers did not see any reason to build the capability to turn the blade edge straight into the wind.

[Butcher]

That depends on what's damaged. I like this idea but it will be too hard to implement and wont make a significant difference in the end.

Agree, trying to make the damage "complex" would be a serious change in the game and not likely an easy one.

I'd rather have new toys added to the game, He-111 and D.520 before we get some complex damage system.

The game has to have a balance of Arcade and simulation to please the crowd as a whole. Its already complex in a way, being if your fuel tank gets hit by a .303 it leaks slowly - rather then a hit from a 20mm in which it will drain out almost instantly.

[guncrasher]

The engine does not need all it's cylinders working to provide power. As long as the damaged part of the engine will not block the rest of the engine from moving the engine will still work.  

but that's not what he's talking about.  he's talking about restarting an engine that had died due to damage.

semp

[MachFly]

My understanding is that they did not have that ability during WWII.  The designers did not see any reason to build the capability to turn the blade edge straight into the wind.

Your partially correct, actually my response above was also a bit inaccurate.

All constant speed propellers can feather, however not all can feather completely. When your engine stops you typically want to do two thing to decrease your drag, feather the prop (so it would have minimal wind resistance) and stop the blades as it takes energy to rotate them (and your engine and they are connected to it), that energy is translated into drag.
On a multi-engine aircraft you normally have full-feathering props. When you loose one engine you lost 50% of your power and you're drag also significantly increases. Quite often that 2nd engine has enough power to keep you in the air, but because of the extra drag created by the failed engine your remaining engine can not keep you airborne. So what you do is reduce the drag by as much as possible by feather the prop and stopping the blades.
Now on a single engine aircraft when you loose your engine your screwed, at that point all you care about is increasing your glide distance. All the extra metal that would fully feather your prop is heavy and when gliding you want to reduce the weight by as much as possible so single engine aircraft typically don't have fully-feathering props. Now technically you would still want to feather your prop as much as possible but because in that position it will be windmilling it would still be creating a lot of drag. Letting your prop windmill is one of the worst thing you can do (as I explained above) therefor most aircraft manufacturers design their governors to move the prop to the opposite of feathering position. This will significantly help you stop the prop. When you don't have the option to fully feather the prop keeping the blades in an unfeathered position and stationary is much better than keeping them in an almost feathered positioned and windmilling.
Some aircraft manufacturers still give the single engine aircraft the ability to fully feather the prop, I believe Beechcraft did that on the T-6. So it's debatable on what is better, but most single engine aircraft can not fully-feather their prop. 

[MachFly]

but that's not what he's talking about.  he's talking about restarting an engine that had died due to damage.

semp

Ah, right.

I'm not a mechanic but as far as I understand if the engine already stops due to mechanical damage it would be next to impossible to re-start it without fixing the damage. So yes you can try re-starting it, but chances are it's not going to help.
Technically you can already try re-starting it by pressing the "e" key. 

[Karnak]

Your partially correct, actually my response above was also a bit inaccurate.

All constant speed propellers can feather, however not all can feather completely. When your engine stops you typically want to do two thing to decrease your drag, feather the prop (so it would have minimal wind resistance) and stop the blades as it takes energy to rotate them (and your engine and they are connected to it), that energy is translated into drag.
On a multi-engine aircraft you normally have full-feathering props. When you loose one engine you lost 50% of your power and you're drag also significantly increases. Quite often that 2nd engine has enough power to keep you in the air, but because of the extra drag created by the failed engine your remaining engine can not keep you airborne. So what you do is reduce the drag by as much as possible by feather the prop and stopping the blades.
Now on a single engine aircraft when you loose your engine your screwed, at that point all you care about is increasing your glide distance. All the extra metal that would fully feather your prop is heavy and when gliding you want to reduce the weight by as much as possible so single engine aircraft typically don't have fully-feathering props. Now technically you would still want to feather your prop as much as possible but because in that position it will be windmilling it would still be creating a lot of drag. Letting your prop windmill is one of the worst thing you can do (as I explained above) therefor most aircraft manufacturers design their governors to move the prop to the opposite of feathering position. This will significantly help you stop the prop. When you don't have the option to fully feather the prop keeping the blades in an unfeathered position and stationary is much better than keeping them in an almost feathered positioned and windmilling.
Some aircraft manufacturers still give the single engine aircraft the ability to fully feather the prop, I believe Beechcraft did that on the T-6. So it's debatable on what is better, but most single engine aircraft can not fully-feather their prop. 

That matches my understanding of WWII single and multi-engined fighter props in regards to feathering.

[mbailey]

Fly one with 2 engines......problem solved  

[icepac]

I glide multiple sectors often and I find it strange that some planes will still windmill at 13mph in a vertical stall.

[Brownien]

my point is that currently the game model is either an oil hit, radiator hit, or a catastrophic engine failure that leaves you with no power. durring the war there were many cases of engine damage to cylinders (particularly radial engines) that would either stall the engine and would need to be restarted, or would allow it to run at a decreased capacity. many a good pilot could restart an engine with some fiddling and get it to run with even chunks missing form the block. i partially dislike all the autimation in the game and would like to see more control over aircraft systems.  may be a bit larger learning curve but once you get a hang on it, there would be a lot more to squeeze out of the airframe.

[icepac]

Are you ready to juggle prop speed, ignition timing, mixture, supercharger speed, and applying different stages of anti-detonation?