P51D vs Yak9U

[dedalos]

Interesting concept. Your argument is not possible. No where for me to go with that.  L8r

Let me help you.  Set the time frame a year or two ago so rust is not an issue as much.

Me in a 51 vs 90% of the AH population in a Yak, Me wins.   Here is where it gets better.  Me in a Yak vs 90% of the AH population in a 51, Me wins again.  Does that compute better?  Saying that plane A always wins vs plane B no mater who is flying it is silly.

[mechanic]

I am the worst yak pilot in the game, I forgot to mention that

[RELIC]

He's saying staright up plane vs plane and flown properly, the pony will win.

I'm not so sure. People seem to disregard the one appealing trait of the yak9U is its speed. The biggest drawback is ammo and ballistics, but that matters less in a 1 v 1. Over 18k the pony will win. Under 18k, there's no clear cut winner.

Around 8k their respective performance is comparable, with the yak having the edge in acceleration and mil power. If they both go to flaps in a scissors, it will belong to the yak once he uses the vertical. The pony will have to rely on proper use of wep. Both have the ability to extend from the other.

Myself in yak vs myself in pony?  Could go either way.

I agree.  Where the Yak has the real advantage is once the fight gets low and slow.

[FireDrgn]

Let me help you.  Set the time frame a year or two ago so rust is not an issue as much.

Me in a 51 vs 90% of the AH population in a Yak, Me wins.   Here is where it gets better.  Me in a Yak vs 90% of the AH population in a 51, Me wins again.  Does that compute better?  Saying that plane A always wins vs plane B no mater who is flying it is silly.

"FireDrgn, I agree with Ded in that if it was me in a p51 vs me in a yak the p51 would win everytime."\

No that does not compute

That being said I did say that the Yak nose up would win every time so I am guilty of the same.     
Its obvious that neither the yak nor the 51 can actually win . This is apparent if you bail out of either plane in the middle of a fight.   
I should have chosen my words more carfully/ I aggree with. "Saying that plane A always wins vs plane B no mater who is flying it is silly."

[dedalos]

"FireDrgn, I agree with Ded in that if it was me in a p51 vs me in a yak the p51 would win everytime."\

No that does not compute

That being said I did say that the Yak nose up would win every time so I am guilty of the same.     
Its obvious that neither the yak nor the 51 can actually win . This is apparent if you bail out of either plane in the middle of a fight.   
I should have chosen my words more carfully/ I aggree with. "Saying that plane A always wins vs plane B no mater who is flying it is silly."

Why doesn't it compute?  He is taking out the variable of the pilot and puts the focus on the plane.  How could you possibly compare planes if pilot skill becomes part of the equation? 
Since when did the Yak become a contender in this game anyway  ?  Some guy puts some goofy restrictions on the fight then makes a false statement that the Yak will always win no matter who is flying it and some how it becomes a fact?  Ask that guy if he can beat everyone if he is in a Yak. The answer should be yes if he is right.

[Widewing]

Some guy puts some goofy restrictions on the fight then makes a false statement that the Yak will always win no matter who is flying it and some how it becomes a fact? 

Let's review this thread and see if we can follow the progression....

One guy wrote: "The mustang can go toe to toe with a yak in a stall fight no problem."

I replied: "Ah, no. The Yak has a much tighter turn radius. I'd classify it mid way between a Spit 8 and the P-51D. the P-51D pilot has to conserve his E and avoid using excessive flaps or it becomes slow speed fight where the Yak is superior."

Another gent chimes in: "On paper, but not in the game, and it depends on who is flying.  I share the view of BigR, and have done it many times.  The 51 is very versatile and can stall fight a Yak quite well, even at slow speeds."

Relic agrees: "I concur."

I offer a challenge: "Okay, let's settle this... Cage match. Large field in TA. Can't fly beyond the outer road boundary of the field. Take off on opposite headings. Reverse at other end for merge. Guaranteed stall fight. You, or anyone else feeling froggy, takes a P-51D, I'll take a Yak-9U. 60 seconds after the merge, you'll be flying a sieve. Any takers?"

Relic takes the challenge: "I'm game."

So, we fight the cage match and the Yak utterly dominates the P-51...

There were no other takers... Nonetheless, the fact remains that the Yak will abuse the P-51D in a stall fight. Given equal pilots, the P-51 will not win...

Now, the MA environment is completely different, but we were not discussing the MA per se, but stall fighting.

[RELIC]

Let's review this thread and see if we can follow the progression....

One guy wrote: "The mustang can go toe to toe with a yak in a stall fight no problem."

I replied: "Ah, no. The Yak has a much tighter turn radius. I'd classify it mid way between a Spit 8 and the P-51D. the P-51D pilot has to conserve his E and avoid using excessive flaps or it becomes slow speed fight where the Yak is superior."

Another gent chimes in: "On paper, but not in the game, and it depends on who is flying.  I share the view of BigR, and have done it many times.  The 51 is very versatile and can stall fight a Yak quite well, even at slow speeds."

Relic agrees: "I concur."

I offer a challenge: "Okay, let's settle this... Cage match. Large field in TA. Can't fly beyond the outer road boundary of the field. Take off on opposite headings. Reverse at other end for merge. Guaranteed stall fight. You, or anyone else feeling froggy, takes a P-51D, I'll take a Yak-9U. 60 seconds after the merge, you'll be flying a sieve. Any takers?"

Relic takes the challenge: "I'm game."

So, we fight the cage match and the Yak utterly dominates the P-51...

There were no other takers... Nonetheless, the fact remains that the Yak will abuse the P-51D in a stall fight. Given equal pilots, the P-51 will not win...

Now, the MA environment is completely different, but we were not discussing the MA per se, but stall fighting.

CLEARLY this is all my fault for being such a crappy Pony driver!   

[TequilaChaser]

He's saying staright up plane vs plane and flown properly, the pony will win.

I'm not so sure. People seem to disregard the one appealing trait of the yak9U is its speed. The biggest drawback is ammo and ballistics, but that matters less in a 1 v 1.

People ingame seem to think the Yak is a poor performing plane, and as Shane posted they do not acknowledge the Yak's ability to hold speed and the ability of managing its E retention

most every fight I have lost against a Yak was due to myself not giving the Yak's abilitys its due....... and taking it for granted that it was less superior when it actually was not.......

my view on it anyways..... ( regardless if it was in the MA or DA or whatever arena )

<S>

TC

[katanaso]

Let's review this thread and see if we can follow the progression....

One guy wrote: "The mustang can go toe to toe with a yak in a stall fight no problem."

I replied: "Ah, no. The Yak has a much tighter turn radius. I'd classify it mid way between a Spit 8 and the P-51D. the P-51D pilot has to conserve his E and avoid using excessive flaps or it becomes slow speed fight where the Yak is superior."

Another gent chimes in: "On paper, but not in the game, and it depends on who is flying.  I share the view of BigR, and have done it many times.  The 51 is very versatile and can stall fight a Yak quite well, even at slow speeds."

Relic agrees: "I concur."

I offer a challenge: "Okay, let's settle this... Cage match. Large field in TA. Can't fly beyond the outer road boundary of the field. Take off on opposite headings. Reverse at other end for merge. Guaranteed stall fight. You, or anyone else feeling froggy, takes a P-51D, I'll take a Yak-9U. 60 seconds after the merge, you'll be flying a sieve. Any takers?"

Relic takes the challenge: "I'm game."

So, we fight the cage match and the Yak utterly dominates the P-51...

There were no other takers... Nonetheless, the fact remains that the Yak will abuse the P-51D in a stall fight. Given equal pilots, the P-51 will not win...

Now, the MA environment is completely different, but we were not discussing the MA per se, but stall fighting.

I will take you up on this.  I've played less than an hour per night this week, but I should have time this weekend.

Let's also try a fight at 5k, where there's some vertical to use for low yo-yos.

[Rich52]

Judgeing by the stats they are two fighters that often find each other in the same airspace. The P-51 has a slight edge in kills "last month" over the Yak but that can be explained by the 51D being such a huge mission airplane, and being more offensive then defensive. Thus almost always holding the edge in Alt/E. As far as the Yak goes the 51D is its biggest nemisis, or, at the least the most probable airframe it will meet in combat. For the P-51D the most probably enemy it will meet is itself, the LA-7, or Spit16.

Im kinda surprised the 51D outkilled the Spit16 but with the LWA there are so many variables. Most of all with airframes used to heavily by noobs, semi-skilled, and skilled. The Yak-9 is not an airframe used by noobs. The only thing I can really say is when up against someone equal, or maybe a little better, then you the Yak9U and 51D can be an interresting dual.

[Widewing]

CLEARLY this is all my fault for being such a crappy Pony driver!   

You did well, and I'll state this again so that no one is confused... Had we switched planes, the outcome for the Mustang would have been the same...

[Widewing]

I will take you up on this.  I've played less than an hour per night this week, but I should have time this weekend.

Let's also try a fight at 5k, where there's some vertical to use for low yo-yos.

I haven't been getting much flying in during the week... Family stuff, like getting grand kid to bed and the like gets priority. However, I'm usually on after 9 PM weekends. Check the Roster for TredLite.

We can fly any combination you like beyond the "cage match".

 

[daddog]

Let's review this thread and see if we can follow the progression....

One guy wrote: "The mustang can go toe to toe with a yak in a stall fight no problem."

I replied: "Ah, no. The Yak has a much tighter turn radius. I'd classify it mid way between a Spit 8 and the P-51D. the P-51D pilot has to conserve his E and avoid using excessive flaps or it becomes slow speed fight where the Yak is superior."

Another gent chimes in: "On paper, but not in the game, and it depends on who is flying.  I share the view of BigR, and have done it many times.  The 51 is very versatile and can stall fight a Yak quite well, even at slow speeds."

Relic agrees: "I concur."

I offer a challenge: "Okay, let's settle this... Cage match. Large field in TA. Can't fly beyond the outer road boundary of the field. Take off on opposite headings. Reverse at other end for merge. Guaranteed stall fight. You, or anyone else feeling froggy, takes a P-51D, I'll take a Yak-9U. 60 seconds after the merge, you'll be flying a sieve. Any takers?"

Relic takes the challenge: "I'm game."

So, we fight the cage match and the Yak utterly dominates the P-51...

There were no other takers... Nonetheless, the fact remains that the Yak will abuse the P-51D in a stall fight. Given equal pilots, the P-51 will not win...

Now, the MA environment is completely different, but we were not discussing the MA per se, but stall fighting.

Have always enjoyed your posts Widewing.  <S> You never get nasty and always make your points calmly and logically.
Good thread.
   

[katanaso]

I haven't been getting much flying in during the week... Family stuff, like getting grand kid to bed and the like gets priority. However, I'm usually on after 9 PM weekends. Check the Roster for TredLite.

We can fly any combination you like beyond the "cage match".

 

Sounds good.   I'll look for you and give you a shout.

[lulu]

"Now, the MA environment is completely different"

Can You explain this?