Who thinks that Bombers in the game have jumped the shark?

[Noir]

you are doing 300mph, d800 and going away from the bombers? No issue for the laser magic turrets, here goes your blood and oil/rad

[Tumor]

The flight sim guys don't matter anymore.

Naaaaa, that's dead wrong.  Flight-sim guys are just a piece of the pie.  Granted, and ever smaller piece.  But HTC wouldn't make enough to buy lunch if they catered to "flight-sim guys".  Catering to flight-sim guys would create an atmosphere that takes WORK to make stuff happen.  How ya think that would work out?  Gamer guys have and always will be a royal pain in the butt to anyone trying to take AH seriously as a "combat flight sim".  Ya just gotta learn to put up with'em.

[BigR]

What the heck are you guys talking about? Nothing has changed in the flight model. Dive bombing Lancs are lame yes, but thats been going on a long time now. If you let a bomber shoot you down, it is totally your fault.

[HawkerMKII]

This game has to appeal to the xbox gamers in order to stay afloat. The flight sim guys don't matter anymore.

Just hop in your favorite ride and tag along with 50 of your countrymen and kill whatever you can, by any means possible and you can be a top ranked ace in no time.  

So very true.....XBOX generation rules anymore........"I don't know how to use a joystick" puff.....A,S,W,D tells part of the story.

[Vinkman]

   How the same people can come on daily, hour after hour and do the same thing over and over is beyond me. Mass up, overwhelm a base, capture..next!  Yuck. Its like a job to some of them.

A horde is only a problem if you are in it.
If you are in it, your are the problem.


If you are the type like to win the war, then rolling bases is how that's done. How many players should an attack be limited too? Should there be a limit on defenders?
If you're not into winning the war, then who cares who's rolling bases and who wins the war?

The game ebbs and flows when it comes to numbers. It's balanced over time, not in every situation. If you don't like the numbers just wait a minute, they'll change, or go to another part of the map and start a fight. Go find an empty base and fly to it. Some will up and you can 1v1, 2v1 all night. 

[Shuffler]

well... there are a number of things that the bombers in AH do, or rather "can do" that they didn't in WWII.

First, the typical level bombing speed in AH is far greater than in WWII.  B24's and B17's typically dropped at less than 220 TAS.  In AH, it is full throttle and why not??? There is no accuracy penalty for high speeds.  I can not vouch for the B29 or the Mossi B Mk XVI.  I can show you hand written records from my grandfather's flight logs on where, alt, speeds, etc for B24D bombing runs in the south PTO.  

Second, there is no altitude or angle restriction for when a bomber is able to let loose their ordnance.  Now obviously there are some aircraft that were designed, built, and utilized in both dive bombing/shallow dive bombing and level bombing.  The B5N, Ju88, B25, and even the supposedly the Lancaster (although I can not find actual literature to show it was designed to dive or shallow bomb), were all dual purpose.  There must be some latitude in labeling bombers if ever there were any restrictions placed on which model could drop bombs outside of the bomb sight.

There are a couple more, but those two are the biggest issues I have with the bombers in AH: there are no restrictions.  Use them as dog fighters, spawn point carpet bombers (from 500ft), etc etc  There is nothing stopping the use of an aircraft far outside the realm of what it truly was capable doing.  
    
FWIW: the Head On pass takes TWO, it **always** takes 2 to "HO".  It is a viable tactic and an inevitable tactic as well.  With the goal being to get your guns on the enemy, sooner or later each pilot will be aiming as well a being targeted at the same time.  If you choose to partake in the Mexican stand off then be prepared to get shot down and consider yourself very lucky if you manage to stay in the air.  Once you accept that fact the sooner you will stop crying about it and deal with it.   

German pilots came in from the front because the combined speed caused the canon to hit harder. Granted they did not all came from the front. Records show some even rammed bombers if they had to.

[jimbo71]

I remember when Fonzie jumped sharks w/ water skis 

[Zoney]

Well, ya can't see their tracers, but they can see them while they are firing.  This changes everything and nothing.  If you are correct in your approaches, it does not matter whether you can see him firing or not, make your pass and get the kill.  There is a difference also not seeing tracers when you and a mate are double-teaming a buff, now ya can't see who the buff is focused on untill you hear the hits or your mate calls them out.

The bottom line is it is a change, and it is more of a challenge to the attacking fighter.  Bigger challenge = more satisfaction from the kill.

The advantage is still far and away to the quality fighter jock.

[TDeacon]

I thought the "no bomber tracers" change was a bug. 
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,330000.0.html

BTW, I also agree that a maneuvering buff is easier to shoot down (unless he has separate players as gunners, which is not usual).   

MH

[Noir]

I like when the bombers soak all the damage just by switching plane.

[TheRapier]

To make the ask here clear. HTC can make any game they want to, it's their development money. My subscription is MY money. What is asked is a clear statement of what kind of game is this. It's stated on the home page, "High fidelity flight simulation is the heart of Aces High but it doesn't end there."

The truth is that bombers in this game clearly don't behave like WWII bombers, not by any stretch of the imagination. They may make great Corellian battlecruisers that appear as a B17 or a B24 or Lanc, but their behavior shows something else. A person who has learned to exploit these seams in the game has a clear advantage. A fighter has to make a perfect attack run to have a chance of surviving against this and survival depends on the bomber not pulling max Gs. As a consequence the balance is changed. The ask of HTC is a statement, is this what you intend? If it is, it tells us whether this is a game we want to invest in or not. Personally, I own an Xbox, if this is what this becomes then there is no need for separate subscription. I'm sure there are a lot of other folks like me.

I don't think this is a choice between Xbox Arcade play and simulation. I think its a choice between accurate modeling or not. Both the hard core ACM person and the newby should be able to find a place here. I can see how the changes might have been made to make individual bombers more survivable but given the new horde warrior trend in arena, you have unstoppable Corellian battlecruisers with escorts that are only escorting to pick up kills from the bombers. That is clearly not WWII.

Simple solution seems to be, look at the G load. If a gunner could not stand (1.5 gs or should do it) or manuever their gun, the guns should not shoot. If the plane is upside down or sideways, they shouldn't shoot. If the plane is diving beyond a certain angle, bombs should not drop.

BTW there is acknowledgement in the thread Deacon references that this is a bug.

[grizz441]

The truth is that bombers in this game clearly don't behave like WWII bombers, not by any stretch of the imagination. They may make great Corellian battlecruisers that appear as a B17 or a B24 or Lanc, but their behavior shows something else. A person who has learned to exploit these seams in the game has a clear advantage. A fighter has to make a perfect attack run to have a chance of surviving against this and survival depends on the bomber not pulling max Gs. As a consequence the balance is changed. The ask of HTC is a statement, is this what you intend? If it is, it tells us whether this is a game we want to invest in or not. Personally, I own an Xbox, if this is what this becomes then there is no need for separate subscription. I'm sure there are a lot of other folks like me.

Huh? You are getting owned by bombers in a turn fight? 

The most lethal bombers are the ones that can make deviations in course to set up unfavorable angles for assaulting fighters, and the ones that have lethal accuracy, which requires the bomber to be flying on autopilot. 

If you are losing turn fights to B26's and light bombers of sorts, then that is just hilarious.

[Bruv119]

I out flew both draggon and Hoagi  in a JU88,    please someone lock me up and throw away the key!   

It is also well noted that Alex Henshaw  barrel rolled a Lancaster light.    Try telling your Guy Gibson's that you can't do anything but fly straight and level  that is NOT how dams  get blown up!     

[The Fugitive]

I agree, I think a lot of people "game the game" with buffs, but it is what it is.

Obviously that's the way HTC wants it or it would be changed. I'm sure coding G load and dive angle wouldn't be that big a deal for people like they have at HTC to add in. While there are instances of buffs doing dive bombing in the war it wasn't the norm. Here it is becoming more of the norm than high alt level bombing. I'm all for people getting rewarded for using the equipment the way it was intended, as well as punishing those that use them not as intended.

[Noir]

A fighter has to make a perfect attack run to have a chance of surviving

you have unstoppable Corellian battlecruisers with escorts that are only escorting to pick up kills from the bombers. That is clearly not WWII.

+1 on my quotes

Shouldn't the bombers have a max calibrated speed? Skillfull pilots should still be able to compensate manually.