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Author Topic: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942  (Read 2786 times)

Offline Angus

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Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« on: March 21, 2012, 04:56:47 AM »
This is the second time I ponder on this, after seeing a documentary a long time ago. I lost that one, but kept looking, and stumbled on this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_offensive_plans_controversy#Suvorov.2C_.22Icebreaker.22.2C_and_the_1980s

And a lecture:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7zVLfjWzmE

Now, the first time I put this up as a thread, it went up in flames with Boroda at the lancepoint, lol, but at least I found some of the data I was looking for. More will be coming.
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Offline Angus

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2012, 05:14:22 AM »
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline MachFly

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2012, 05:15:38 AM »
Yes they did. Unfortunately Germany did it first.
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Offline cpxxx

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2012, 05:48:13 AM »
Whatever way you look at it, Stalin knew a war with Germany was inevitable. So it's a very plausible idea that preparations for an invasion were under way. But of course Hitler got in first because that was always part of his master plan.

But the trouble with theories like this isn't whether they're true or not. But how they're used by the current crop of Nazi apologists who want to rewrite history. In their version of events Hitler was forced to defend Germany by invading all his neighbours because of giant plot by Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin and of course the Jews.
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Offline KgB

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2012, 07:41:41 AM »
No doubt about it. Probably the reason why Adolf abandoned England invasion.
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Offline Bruv119

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2012, 07:45:54 AM »
Quote from: KgB on March 21, 2012, 07:41:41 AM
No doubt about it. Probably the reason why Adolf abandoned England invasion.

and more importantly the fact that the Luftwaffe failed to achieve Aerial superiority over England in August 1940.   :aok
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Offline KgB

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2012, 07:51:52 AM »
Quote from: Bruv119 on March 21, 2012, 07:45:54 AM
and more importantly the fact that the Luftwaffe failed to achieve Aerial superiority over England in August 1940.   :aok
Did they not fail because they abandoned it?
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Offline FLOTSOM

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2012, 07:55:13 AM »
Quote from: cpxxx on March 21, 2012, 05:48:13 AM
But the trouble with theories like this isn't whether they're true or not. But how they're used by the current crop of Nazi apologists who want to rewrite history. In their version of events Hitler was forced to defend Germany by invading all his neighbours because of giant plot by Churchill, Roosevelt, Stalin and of course the Jews.

really????

i dont believe the OP was asking for anything more than opinions based on factual events, if you flood the thread with bs then he gets nothing of value and the thread soon gets locked.

yes stalin planned on invading germany, but hitler beat him to the punch by a month.

Angus there was a partial discussion on this topic starting around page 10 of this thread http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,328684.msg4310927.html#msg4310927 try reading some of these, http://wintersonnenwende.com/scriptorium/english/archives/articles/stalwarplans.html http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v18/v18n3p40_Michaels.html.
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Offline KgB

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 08:01:34 AM »
Why didn't Hitler invade Switzerland? It would make things much easier.
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Offline MachFly

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 08:05:58 AM »
Quote from: KgB on March 21, 2012, 07:51:52 AM
Did they not fail because they abandoned it?

No they abandoned it because they failed. They lost Battle of Britain.
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"Now, if I had to make the choice of one fighter aircraft above all the others...it would be, without any doubt, the world's greatest propeller driven flying machine - the magnificent and immortal Spitfire."
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Offline KgB

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 08:45:05 AM »
Quote from: MachFly on March 21, 2012, 08:05:58 AM
No they abandoned it because they failed. They lost Battle of Britain.
Disagree.
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Offline Noir

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 08:49:52 AM »
Quote from: KgB on March 21, 2012, 08:45:05 AM
Disagree.

LOL obviously the germans won the Battle of Britain  :huh  :lol

you seem to fit the description of

Quote from: cpxxx on March 21, 2012, 05:48:13 AM
the current crop of Nazi apologists who want to rewrite history..
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Offline Noir

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #12 on: March 21, 2012, 08:51:28 AM »
Angus, here's a long but very good article on the russian front and the stalin/hitler relationship.

http://www.vectorsite.net/twsnow.html
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Offline Angus

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2012, 09:00:57 AM »
KgB, you can disagree as much as you want, and also claim that water isn't wet. The fact is that the LW did not manage to acieve acceptable air superiority before the deadline of operation Sea Lion, and they bled heavily while at it. In short, - they failed so badly, that escorted bombers over Britain in daylight operations were abandoned as soon as the autumn of 1940. Withdrawal from that tactic was inevitable.
The air power that the LW lost to Allied guns in 1940 roughly equalled the whole force they used when invading Russia. And the force they used when invading Russia roughly equalled what they had tied up on the Western front, - from the Arctic to the Med.
Just facts. Disagreeing won't make a thing.
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It was very interesting to carry out the flight trials at Rechlin with the Spitfire and the Hurricane. Both types are very simple to fly compared to our aircraft, and childishly easy to take-off and land. (Werner Mölders)

Offline Shuffler

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Re: Did the Russians plan to invade Germany in 1941/1942
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2012, 09:11:36 AM »
The odd thing is if Russia was planning to invade..... why were they so unprepared when Germany moved first?
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