P-47d40 vs. P-47d25

[LilMak]

Definitely need to get your licks in, in the vertical when you can work the flaps without killing all your e. Ki and D11 are the same speed up to 7k WEPed out and the Ki has better climb rate below 20k. I'm sure on the deck merges with Jetsom are going to make for some tough fights.

What Jug do you favor?

My preference depends on the mission. I prefer the D-25 for general dogfighting. The D-40 is my ground attack plane. The M is my horde suppression fighter. I think the D-40 is the best all around Jug. The N is slightly better with WEP but is a complete dog once it runs out. Last time I killed Juggler in the N, it was because he ran out of WEP in the vert.

[JUGgler]

I'm a pretty dern good jug pilot and I tend to agree with Jetsom. At MA altitudes with equal pilots a KI-84 is more than a match for a Jug. The key to fighting a superior climbing/turning aircraft is maintaining speeds above 250 which is why I say the jug has a chance till it runs out of altitude at which time it will be tough to maintain those speeds while the KI sets up the perch. Sure a jug could extend and come back with a full head of steam but that would be a totally new fight IMO.

I dont pretend to be the best jug lilot in game but I think I might last longer than 3 turns though.

I agree mak, you would last longer than 3 turns, and I'd put safe money on you to win  



Everyone here is neglecting possibly the greatest advantage the JUG has over the ki84!!!  Actually it is a great asset for the JUG against any adversary




Someone needs to give ink a dose of JUGMILITY or I might be forced to return, and that makes me sad


BTW going back to the OP post, the D25 is the worst JUG of the lot, BUT it usually is the one "good JUGGIES" choose. The D25 turns moderately better than the D40 but it is not a significant difference. The D40 holds E extremely well for a JUG, almost as good as the N, For me the D40 always felt nose heavy but the added E retention could be a nasty suprise for anyone who took it for granted! Sometimes if there was a lot of corsairs around I would use the D40, my preference is the D25 but it is hard to not take the "N"aughty lady out once in awhile, she is so gracefull. I like to say the N is the pallet for the "artistic" JUGgy  



 




JUGgler

[bj229r]

That standard nearly-ram-merge thing that all official duels start with is a loser for the jug....most good MA fights don't seem to start that way

[ink]

I agree mak, you would last longer than 3 turns, and I'd put safe money on you to win  



Everyone here is neglecting possibly the greatest advantage the JUG has over the ki84!!!  Actually it is a great asset for the JUG against any adversary




Someone needs to give ink a dose of JUGMILITY or I might be forced to return, and that makes me sad


BTW going back to the OP post, the D25 is the worst JUG of the lot, BUT it usually is the one "good JUGGIES" choose. The D25 turns moderately better than the D40 but it is not a significant difference. The D40 holds E extremely well for a JUG, almost as good as the N, For me the D40 always felt nose heavy but the added E retention could be a nasty suprise for anyone who took it for granted! Sometimes if there was a lot of corsairs around I would use the D40, my preference is the D25 but it is hard to not take the "N"aughty lady out once in awhile, she is so gracefull. I like to say the N is the pallet for the "artistic" JUGgy  



 




JUGgler

 

sorry bro but I will make you look silly in a JUG vs KI fight

come on back....don't be scured....put up or....well you know the rest.

[LilMak]

sorry bro but I will make you look silly in a JUG vs KI fight

come on back....don't be scured....put up or....well you know the rest.

Gotta love it when the guy flying the spit16 of Japanese aircraft talks smack about turn fighting against a Jug.

[Oldman731]

Gotta love it when the guy flying the spit16 of Japanese aircraft talks smack about turn fighting against a Jug.

To be fair, he's only responding to the challenge.  Same as if a Jug pilot told a Spit 16 pilot that he'd usually win the fight.

- oldman

[JUGgler]

sorry bro but I will make you look silly in a JUG vs KI fight

come on back....don't be scured....put up or....well you know the rest.

I don't know how I would look silly other than the way I usualy look But honestly using the ki84 is like playing poker and being dealt 3 natural aces every hand   But it is not unbeatable 





JUGgler

[JUGgler]

To be fair, he's only responding to the challenge.  Same as if a Jug pilot told a Spit 16 pilot that he'd usually win the fight.

- oldman

Never said I would usualy win the fight, I said he may be suprised 







JUGgler

[WWhiskey]

The difference is everyone still thinks the jug should go down to the KI fight,,,
let Ink Climb up to 26K and shoot al those jugs down,,,, let's see that super ubber KI killing ability in the jugs home turf
I think INK  Is a far better than average pilot but how many jugs has he killed up high?
  How many jugs has anyone killed on its home turf with a KI, niki, 26K and up?
A few maybe but I doubt anyone can say they killed All comers,,
wich is what INK is sayin about any jug that goes down into his territory  !

To fly the jug in aces high is a handicap in itself as if you fly it correctly, you'll be all alone most of the time, at alt, shooting at passing bombers on occasion !
If you want to fight, you have to leave its comort zone and head into everyone else's !
Not quite fair for a Jug driver that wants to fly it in its inviroment but we take what we can get!

[Butcher]

You are very kind~

Lets start at 25k and we could put this to bed quickly. 

Lets just shoot for best of 10 and have some fun, don't need to make a career out of this match up. Should be pretty clear who is more capable in their ride after 5 fights.

Do you want to start on his 6 as well in this best out of 10?

[WWhiskey]

Do you want to start on his 6 as well in this best out of 10?

Oh I bet a head on pass at 25 K would suffice!

[Karnak]

But honestly using the ki84 is like playing poker and being dealt 3 natural aces every hand

The Ki-84 is good, but its not that good.

[ink]

Gotta love it when the guy flying the spit16 of Japanese aircraft talks smack about turn fighting against a Jug.

 

what does that even mean...if I am in a spit the KI is easy to kill.

The difference is everyone still thinks the jug should go down to the KI fight,,,
let Ink Climb up to 26K and shoot al those jugs down,,,, let's see that super ubber KI killing ability in the jugs home turf
I think INK  Is a far better than average pilot but how many jugs has he killed up high?
  How many jugs has anyone killed on its home turf with a KI, niki, 26K and up?
A few maybe but I doubt anyone can say they killed All comers,,
wich is what INK is sayin about any jug that goes down into his territory  !

To fly the jug in aces high is a handicap in itself as if you fly it correctly, you'll be all alone most of the time, at alt, shooting at passing bombers on occasion !
If you want to fight, you have to leave its comort zone and head into everyone else's !
Not quite fair for a Jug driver that wants to fly it in its inviroment but we take what we can get!

this is my point..... fights don't happen at the JUGs ideal territory....its unfair against the JUG to fight the KI at typical MA ALT fights....I certainly don't dispute that way up there the JUG has the advantage and should win....

to see all you guys talking like the JUG stands a chance against the KI in typical MA ALTS is funny.....and sad really...you guys just cant face the truth....

I mean cmon...seriously....

The Ki-84 is good, but its not that good.

 

I was told recently it is the BEST fighter ingame......while I was fighting 5+ in spits, one bragged he got an assist on me   

the plane is just a tool......the pilot is who you fight, but when you try to use a hammer to screw in a screw...it just don't work very well no matter how good you are at screwing in screws.

[JUGgler]

The Ki-84 is good, but its not that good.

In the AH style of play where most fights happen or degrade below 10K the KI84 IMHO is easily in the top 3 of aircraft in this environement!
couple this with a "multi threat environment it may well be #1


The only down side to the ki84 is its hi speed handling and this is mitigated a bit by compitent trim control, also all fight speeds degrade to the KIs sweet spot after a turn or 2. Lets not even discuss what the plane is like when you get slow enough to deploy flaps





I would be very suprised if most folks did not agree with this!





JUGgler

[ink]

In the AH style of play where most fights happen or degrade below 10K the KI84 IMHO is easily in the top 3 of aircraft in this environement!
couple this with a "multi threat environment it may well be #1


The only down side to the ki84 is its hi speed handling and this is mitigated a bit by compitent trim control, also all fight speeds degrade to the KIs sweet spot after a turn or 2. Lets not even discuss what the plane is like when you get slow enough to deploy flaps





I would be very suprised if most folks did not agree with this!





JUGgler

I agree with this...except with the High speed....get it close to 500 and parts come off....trim isn't all that much help....that is the only issue with it, but considering how I fly I don't need that speed.

the only planes that I have a hard time with (as long as the person who is in it knows what he is doing, that is) are spit 5's spit 8's 9's 16's....and the Hurri2C...so I would say it's in the top 5......for strictly Fighting.

this is why I started flying the KI.... it is great for fighting the Hoard.... with some ALT it is almost untouchable....

another thing I love about the KI is it's ability to take a beating, it cant take as much as a JUG but it can really take some punishment for a Japanese plane.


I forgot the N1K in the right hands can be difficult.... although it is rare to find someone who is really good in that.