Author Topic: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25  (Read 22075 times)

Offline oakranger

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #105 on: May 10, 2012, 02:13:37 AM »
Been working with the D25 and finding I like it a lot.  Feels solid and turns well for a Jug.  Surprisingly I am finding the turn radius is not that huge between the D11 and D25.

LilMak and other hardcore 47 guys, where and why do you like setting your convergence in the D25?

Thanks again,

Slade  :salute

Inner 400, outter 350.

I mostly like the D-25 on bombing GVs.  I will also take them into air to air fights. 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 02:15:10 AM by oakranger »
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Offline ink

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #106 on: May 10, 2012, 08:55:28 PM »
seems even at 20+K the KI is no match for  the 47.....

anybody wanna venture a guess how many times the KI lost?    except when it was KIvsKI

mostly good honorable fights, except first fight was supposed to be deck merge.... I fly along on the deck and see his dot up at about 4k :headscratch: I thought this was a sign of a tard...but whatever, the extra E didn't give him an edge.
HO on one of the fights...so next pass I admit I HOed him back ....felt bad about it...... :o

those were the only 2 things that were not kosher...he at least showed up and fought,I changed my mind by time we were done...he seems like a nice enough guy.


 :salute


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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #107 on: May 10, 2012, 08:57:44 PM »
so what was the final tally?

Offline ink

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #108 on: May 10, 2012, 09:01:37 PM »
so what was the final tally?

 8-0 with the last 3 in KI's

Offline Debrody

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #109 on: May 10, 2012, 09:05:10 PM »
8-0 with the last 3 in KI's
I dont think Ink has a K/D of 2 in the MAs. Time to end my sarcasm...
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Offline Seadog36

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #110 on: May 12, 2012, 07:35:58 AM »
seems even at 20+K the KI is no match for  the 47.....

anybody wanna venture a guess how many times the KI lost?    except when it was KIvsKI

mostly good honorable fights, except first fight was supposed to be deck merge.... I fly along on the deck and see his dot up at about 4k :headscratch: I thought this was a sign of a tard...but whatever, the extra E didn't give him an edge.
HO on one of the fights...so next pass I admit I HOed him back ....felt bad about it...... :o

those were the only 2 things that were not kosher...he at least showed up and fought,I changed my mind by time we were done...he seems like a nice enough guy.


 :salute


Seadog



The Ki84 is a lot more formidable than the zeek3s and Ki 61s I was obliterating in AvA, its a fast turney monster:rofl INK did a wonderful job of demonstrating that :salute Even at 20k it was only marginally better~ I imaging the 84 doesn't get really gassed until you are 25k or over.

Pick and zoom from alt is the only way to get a KI 84 in the hands of a good stick~ I have to admit the 47 is totally outclassed in a coalt merge, and that is probably why allies never fought them like that when possible. If I spent more time in Late War I would probably have know that. <S> INK
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 07:43:01 AM by Seadog36 »

Offline ink

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #111 on: May 12, 2012, 09:46:15 AM »
The Ki84 is a lot more formidable than the zeek3s and Ki 61s I was obliterating in AvA, its a fast turney monster:rofl INK did a wonderful job of demonstrating that :salute Even at 20k it was only marginally better~ I imaging the 84 doesn't get really gassed until you are 25k or over.

Pick and zoom from alt is the only way to get a KI 84 in the hands of a good stick~ I have to admit the 47 is totally outclassed in a coalt merge, and that is probably why allies never fought them like that when possible. If I spent more time in Late War I would probably have know that. <S> INK

47 is a great bird for its use...the type of fighting in AH does not lend to that...even at ALT....maybe 30K or more, but I have never gone that high, most are under 15K....

that's all I was saying I wasn't trying to dis the 47 it is a great plane, but the KI is a monster,at typical MA fights....
 I feel it is the best second to only the spits....the spit driver better be damn good though or even that plane will go down to the Mighty KI :D

<S> Seadog

Offline Widewing

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #112 on: May 12, 2012, 10:06:51 AM »
The Ki-84 isn't a monster... Very capable, but no monster. The 109F-4 or 109G-2 are very much its equal, and both of these date back 3 and 2 years (respectively) before the Ki-84 saw combat. Likewise, the 1943 vintage La-5FN can, and will give the Ki-84 all it can handle. Any of the Corsairs are a real threat to the Ki-84, with the F4U-4 dominating it without drama (then again, the F4U-4 is the best air to air fighter in the plane set). Those early 109s are not very lethal in snapshot opportunities, so you really have to maneuver for a kill. But, that's the fun part. Except that you're more vulnerable to the pickers...

Last evening, I ran across a P-47D-25 flown by FastRide (whoever that is...). We merged at about 2k, and I reversed hard for the kill. It took about 10 seconds to get on the Jug's six. So, FastRide pulls off power and dumps flaps. He begins weaving. I took a snapshot (scoring well enough), then went vertical and rolled back in. A few more hits. The Jug is still flopping around, helpless, when I see another Jug diving in, just 1k out. I break right, nose low and haul around. The Jug can't get guns on and blows by. I spot the other P-47 turning and he's at my 10 o'clock, level with me. We are on a heading to intersect, and just before we do, I go vertical. The FastRide pulls his nose up and sprays. 1 ping on my 109, but it gets my oil, although it's inconsequential.. I drop in on his six again, and once more FastRide dumps flaps and does his best to force an overshoot. To no avail. I just work up and down, and a 20mm hits his cockpit just as a picker makes a run (I tend to dislike picking, from both friend and foe). I went after the other Jug, but someone ran him down first. I had to settle for just the one as I was running out of oil.

Anyway, the facts are that the P-47 can survive these fights, but it depends on how poor the enemy is, rather than how good the Jug is. Down in the weeds, without much E, it's just target practice. You have to fly the P-47s to their strengths, and only resort to maneuvering with flaps in desperation. Come in with some altitude, know where the enemy is, and never, ever waste E for low percentage shots. Keep the Jug light and if you have to skedaddle, do so wisely.

Go back about 8 years, and one of the most fearsome squads in the game was the 56th FG. Lots of capable pilots, who flew well as a team and exploited the P-47's strengths. Their discipline and wingman tactics made it very hard to isolate and beat them one at a time. You would quickly find yourself very busy.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Karnak

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #113 on: May 12, 2012, 10:21:42 AM »
The Ki-84 feels a lot more nimble than the Bf109F-4 and Bf109G-2, probably due to roll rate.  Cockpit visibility is also better in the Ki-84 as is speed down low.  I am not sure how they fare turning against each other.
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Offline LilMak

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2012, 10:30:50 AM »
Hmmm....Next time you see me on INK. Let's hit the DA. I want to see if I can last more than 3 turns. 7k merge. After initial pass, guns are hot. Best 2 outa 3.
"When caught by the enemy in large force the best policy is to fight like hell until you can decide what to do next."
~Hub Zemke
P-47 pilot 56th Fighter Group.

Offline Debrody

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #115 on: May 12, 2012, 10:32:53 AM »
The Ki-84 feels a lot more nimble than the Bf109F-4 and Bf109G-2, probably due to roll rate.  Cockpit visibility is also better in the Ki-84 as is speed down low.  I am not sure how they fare turning against each other.
Highly depends on the pilot. I would take my G6 against 98% of the ki sticks, even match for me. Not against Ink tho.
A real good ki stick can force the climbing rolling scissors and gain advantage from his planes better reversals/hammerheads (if you ever seen nrshida). The ki can can kill any opponent with one snapshot too.
In the other hand the 109 can perform the low yoyo much better and is superior in the downhill. Its single MG is easy to aim, even tho its firepower is limited.

Back to the jug... Widewing summed it up pretty good.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2012, 10:46:55 AM by Debrody »
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Offline Letalis

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #116 on: May 12, 2012, 12:32:25 PM »
The Ki-84 feels a lot more nimble than the Bf109F-4 and Bf109G-2, probably due to roll rate.  Cockpit visibility is also better in the Ki-84 as is speed down low.  I am not sure how they fare turning against each other.

The F-4 is a good match for the Ki.  A touch less in speed, roll, vis and firepower but with sustained WEP, roughly same climb and roughly same turn rate/radius without flaps.  The F-4 has a definite edge in the ~170-250 airspeed band where it can drops flaps and the Ki cannot.  The 84 vs G-2 matchup is closer and the G-6 loses to the 84 all things being equal. While I fear the 84 and F-4 when twisting in a light Jug, I seem to have much better success against the G-2 and G-6 and will often slow to engage these types in (fun) turn fights with decent odds of success.  

I like both the -84 and G-2 but have flown the G-2 a bit more for reasons unknown, maybe the "ENY efficiency" of it.  The roll, vis and especially toughness advantages of the -84 make it a better choice down low against a spit horde imho.

BreakBreak:

Is there even a single dedicated Jug squad left in the game?

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Offline ink

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #117 on: May 12, 2012, 01:58:28 PM »
The Ki-84 isn't a monster... Very capable, but no monster. The 109F-4 or 109G-2 are very much its equal, and both of these date back 3 and 2 years (respectively) before the Ki-84 saw combat. Likewise, the 1943 vintage La-5FN can, and will give the Ki-84 all it can handle. Any of the Corsairs are a real threat to the Ki-84, with the F4U-4 dominating it without drama (then again, the F4U-4 is the best air to air fighter in the plane set). Those early 109s are not very lethal in snapshot opportunities, so you really have to maneuver for a kill. But, that's the fun part. Except that you're more vulnerable to the pickers...

Last evening, I ran across a P-47D-25 flown by FastRide (whoever that is...). We merged at about 2k, and I reversed hard for the kill. It took about 10 seconds to get on the Jug's six. So, FastRide pulls off power and dumps flaps. He begins weaving. I took a snapshot (scoring well enough), then went vertical and rolled back in. A few more hits. The Jug is still flopping around, helpless, when I see another Jug diving in, just 1k out. I break right, nose low and haul around. The Jug can't get guns on and blows by. I spot the other P-47 turning and he's at my 10 o'clock, level with me. We are on a heading to intersect, and just before we do, I go vertical. The FastRide pulls his nose up and sprays. 1 ping on my 109, but it gets my oil, although it's inconsequential.. I drop in on his six again, and once more FastRide dumps flaps and does his best to force an overshoot. To no avail. I just work up and down, and a 20mm hits his cockpit just as a picker makes a run (I tend to dislike picking, from both friend and foe). I went after the other Jug, but someone ran him down first. I had to settle for just the one as I was running out of oil.

Anyway, the facts are that the P-47 can survive these fights, but it depends on how poor the enemy is, rather than how good the Jug is. Down in the weeds, without much E, it's just target practice. You have to fly the P-47s to their strengths, and only resort to maneuvering with flaps in desperation. Come in with some altitude, know where the enemy is, and never, ever waste E for low percentage shots. Keep the Jug light and if you have to skedaddle, do so wisely.

Go back about 8 years, and one of the most fearsome squads in the game was the 56th FG. Lots of capable pilots, who flew well as a team and exploited the P-47's strengths. Their discipline and wingman tactics made it very hard to isolate and beat them one at a time. You would quickly find yourself very busy.

all those planes you listed as giving the KI a fight...I agree but I don't at the same time..... any of the corsairs are a tough fight with someone who knows them...it really does depend on who is flying it.


Hmmm....Next time you see me on INK. Let's hit the DA. I want to see if I can last more than 3 turns. 7k merge. After initial pass, guns are hot. Best 2 outa 3.


love to :aok

Offline LilMak

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #118 on: May 12, 2012, 02:58:45 PM »
BreakBreak:

Is there even a single dedicated Jug squad left in the game?


Mine...with a total number of 1 though. Happy to take all commers with a love of the 7 Ton Milk Jug.
Great fights last night by the way. <S>
"When caught by the enemy in large force the best policy is to fight like hell until you can decide what to do next."
~Hub Zemke
P-47 pilot 56th Fighter Group.

Offline Seadog36

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Re: P-47d40 vs. P-47d25
« Reply #119 on: May 13, 2012, 06:02:29 AM »
Mine...with a total number of 1 though. Happy to take all commers with a love of the 7 Ton Milk Jug.
Great fights last night by the way. <S>

I'm the one man Jug Squad of MW where it really does especially well against those plane sets. 9 new(old but just introduced) D11 skins, how great is that?~ mostly pacific squadrons too and a really nice 1st Air Commandos skin. 

I could probably use some jug coaching as I am mostly self taught ~ Letalis and LilMak <S>