fix the strat game

[Dover]

also on the ME 262 thing i stated

current stats on the k/d ratio for them 6.26

only tanks have higher k/d

[Lusche]

also on the ME 262 thing i stated

current stats on the k/d ratio for them 6.26

And because of that, the Me 262 is heavily perked and a massive losing deal for most players in terms of perks. Result: Only 3.6% of all heavy bomber in the current year had been made by 262s.

only tanks have higher k/d

You might want to check that again

[Dover]

yes but the highest perked bomber can't even hope to do anywhere near a equivalent run with the impact and return points under the current system

[Lusche]

yes but the highest perked bomber can't even hope to do anywhere near a equivalent run with the impact and return points under the current system

The problem of comparing two very different things (fighters & bombers) with the same metric aside, you can make yourself quite invulnerable in the B-29 and the Ar 234. Most 29's are being shot down by using a less than optimum mission profile.

On a personal note, I checked my own stats and noted that the 262 was responsible for 7.3% of my own bomber losses. But then I lost 16 bombers to Me 262 in 3526 sorties. That's only 0.14%...



In the end, the Me 262 is already balanced quite well in the MA.

[guncrasher]

Damage per time isn't part of the bomber scoring system and neither are kills so clearly you do not understand the scoring system.

Damage points (objects destoyed), damage hit % (objects destroyed per bomb) damage per sortie and damage per death are the big drivers of bomber score.  In the past with the spread strats bombing cities with heavy bombs was the most effective way to achieve bomber rank which also affected game strategy.  Now it's dropping one bomb into the middle of several towns which accomplishes nothing but rank achievement.

no the kills reference was about how the fighter scoring works.  but the damage per sorty is a big one.  so hitting the strats wont really give you a boost in score.  getting a mossie and rearming with 1 4k bomb and hit several towns will give you a bigger bump in your score for the time spent than going to the strats.  and that's the truth.

but you are right about hitting just one bomb in every town.  or taking a tank to a town while a member of your squad is in the opposite country flying over you like I have seen it done with a couple of hour top aces here.


semp

[Dover]

The problem of comparing two very different things (fighters & bombers) with the same metric aside, you can make yourself quite invulnerable in the B-29 and the Ar 234. Most 29's are being shot down by using a less than optimum mission profile.

On a personal note, I checked my own stats and noted that the 262 was responsible for 7.3% of my own bomber losses. But then I lost 16 bombers to Me 262 in 3526 sorties. That's only 0.14%...



In the end, the Me 262 is already balanced quite well in the MA.

i think you got me wrong i'm not complaining about the 262
i'm saying there should be a equivalent in the bombers where a good pilot in bomber that spends the points to up 29's should be able to affect a fight in the same way

where as right now they can't have any more affect on a fight than a set of unperked lancs

[Lusche]

What would that be, "affect the fight in the same way" ?

[Dover]

making the strats worth something so when you drop them it does something serious and not able to be resupplied so all your effort isn't undone with 1/10th the effort or at least take more re-supplying than it currently does and when i say more i mean alot more like 50 times more

and if you up a 262 and kill 6 people how many perk points is that gotta be at least what 5 or 6 maybe a little more depending on eny and the planes

you drop the hq and its 1.7 perkies

just asking the bombers can get more for their effort to make the larger effort items worth doing so you won't have people doing lame milk runs on towns

[Lusche]

making the strats worth something so when you drop them it does something serious and not able to be resupplied so all your effort isn't undone with 1/10th the effort or at least take more re-supplying than it currently does and when i say more i mean alot more like 50 times more

and if you up a 262 and kill 6 people how many perk points is that gotta be at least what 5 or 6 maybe a little more depending on eny and the planes

you drop the hq and its 1.7 perkies

just asking the bombers can get more for their effort to make the larger effort items worth doing so you won't have people doing lame milk runs on towns

If you kill 5 or 6 people in a Me 262, it's usually worth much less than 5 or 6 perks. Killing 2 sets of 17's (= six planes is worth a whopping 1.5 perks. If you keep in mind that the average K/D of the 262 is something like 6.7 you will see that this is a massive negative deal in term of perks in the long run. Nobody can afford flying a 262 only, in the long run (most of the time it's actually a short run) you simply can't generate enough perks to pay off the inevitable losses.

And on the topic of "affect the fight the same way" - A single fighter generally has local effect only. If lucky or exceptionally good (or both), he can thwart a base capture attempt single handedly (goon hunting in a fast plane), but that's about it and quite rare to boot. On the other hand, a single bomber pilot can have a notable local effect too, for one player alone can shut down a base for ~10 minutes, which is quite a significant impact.
What you are asking for seems to be a massive global effect for a single bomber, which would not be "affecting the fight in the same way".

I'm all for a significant boost of the strategic part of the gameplay, but while discussing it we have to be careful to to directly compare apples & oranges.

[WWhiskey]

i think it's all bs.  all the vets who asked for the b29 so they could spend the 1k's of bomber points they had, they hardly ever fly one. 

semp

I had thousands of bomber points and up'd the 29 many times, till I ran out of bomber points, earning those points back has become quite tedious without high value targets.  Now I only up one 29 a month these days, I suspect most of the bomber drivers have the same problem!

[Tilt]

10 successfull well planned missions in a single b29 plus 2-3 goon captures will give you top 1, 2 or 3 bomber ranking.

[Dover]

10 successfull well planned missions in a single b29 plus 2-3 goon captures will give you top 1, 2 or 3 bomber ranking.

yeah thats a totaly different problem too there i was ranked 12 last time i looked and i had something like 150 more sorties than anyone ranked above me and something like double plus their hours
but thats another wish

edit* its like 100 more sortie but still double the time in flight

i get what your saying and im not asking for the target to be taken out by one person make it so you need like 5 bomber sets of b29's to take it out which would be like 7 or 8 lanc sets and like 30 sets of b17's
i don't want one person to do it but i want a mission and a group of people to be able to do it
never once did i say i want a single set of bombers to be able to level the whole country
i just want it to be worthy takeing my one set of a group into the target

[guncrasher]

I had thousands of bomber points and up'd the 29 many times, till I ran out of bomber points, earning those points back has become quite tedious without high value targets.  Now I only up one 29 a month these days, I suspect most of the bomber drivers have the same problem!

i got weeks without seeing one.  and that's from the moment they were added.  actually i have lost perhaps 15 or 16 b29's.  the first 7 were due to a bug when they were introduced.  the others were on a dare to take off from a certain field.  took me 4 sets but I made it .


semp

[Torquila]

On the reverse side of this, maybe drastically lowering the b29 perk cost might be a good solution to the situation.

[Lusche]

On the reverse side of this, maybe drastically lowering the b29 perk cost might be a good solution to the situation.

The B-29 is a plane without a mission anyway as long as the main strats are broken. That's a main reason we don't see that many of them. For every target that really makes a difference in this game, there are other bombers with a better fitting mission profile.
It doesn't get better when we lower B-29 cost too much so that it just becomes an Ultra-Lanc. But it can get better when we give this long range, high altitude bomber a valuable target worth all that flight time.