gamey stuff and real life

[colmbo]

the only RPM control on a constant speed propped airplane is the propeller rpm lever..

IF you are pulling enough power to keep the prop off the low pitch stop.  Below that point throttle controls RPM just like a fixed-pitch prop.  Of course at that low of power setting you would not be able to maintain altitude.

[Wiley]

it continues to amaze me that people who are so proficient in the game do not understand the basic principles of the airplanes they are flying.. the only RPM control on a constant speed propped airplane is the propeller rpm lever.. the power (torque) is added via the throttle. . the CSU, or governor (look it up) maintains the RPM.

The beauty of the game is through 99% of your flights, the minute details are irrelevant.  Push throttle forward, plane speeds up.  Pull it back, plane slows down.  Stuff like the above just gets me curious when things have gone horribly wrong and I've got a dead stick plane far from a friendly base and I'm trying to get home.

If I understand right, when your engine is dead, the best thing to do is reduce RPM and try to get the prop to stop.  Is that correct?  If it's free spinning, is there any way to get it to stop, say by getting below a certain airspeed or somesuch?

Wiley.

[JunkyII]

When you see someone turn on/off their engine in mid-fight, it's because they falsely believe that it will get them slower and make you over shoot in a rolling scissor or to make them turn tighter in a turn.  It's an AH urban legend without any basis in fact.  Count your blessings because you're about to enjoy an easy kill if the other guy starts with the engine cutting.

ack-ack

This is exactly right....cutting your engine off in a 109 is also not smart because of the torque. You can control your plane better in high torque rides by moving your throttle constantly.

[sonic23]

Ive cut my engine lots of times before in 1v1 and it always seems to piss off my opponent. does it help me? well i tend to think it does if you know what you're doing, and until i cannot turn my engine instantly back on i will keep doing it lol.

[icepac]

Not sure why this topic has so many pages.

It's very easy to nose down and compare engine off vs engine throttled back.......as well as seeing how the + and - used before engine shutdown affects drag.

[Widewing]

3:my point..gamey

4: really? cause my engine has never given out unless it was shot to hell, oil, or fuel leaked.

5: only in compressions

7: IRL, they did. just listing something that is gamey

8: bombers that caught fire never made it back..hmm? I've heard first hand accounts of planes that caught fire and they made it back. a P47 was jumped by a 190 ace and the 190 caught it on fire. the Jug spun out, while on fire. the pilot recovered and made it home..that is, after a fight. Never has a P47..much less any plane in AH EVER done that.

10: they obviously dont work as they did in RL. thats a given.

11: if we had a 1.00 FBR what makes you fly for 2 hours to find a fight? I never knew changing the FBR would also completly rearrange the maps.

12: true, yet another listing of gameyness

You consistently miss the point....

It's "gamey", because it's a game. One of HTC's goals is to encourage combat. Thus, systems are simplified. I'd rather be fighting than managing systems. There are plenty of flight sims that place emphasis on systems. Ever sit on a runway and watch other players land? It's often comical. Now, let' complicate this by having fully functioning systems and a reliability factor. It would be chaos. More than a few would become disenchanted and move on to another game.

Now, other things....

Point 5 above: Many aircraft suffer from stiffening controls well below compressibility speed. Just because your controls don't respond well doesn't mean you're into compressibility. This simulates the actual issues of the real aircraft. It reflects the lack of mechanical advantage of the stick and/or rudder pedals to overcome aerodynamic forces exerted on the control surfaces. If you're not buffeting, you're not into compressibility...

Point 8 above: Very few aircraft that suffered a fuel fire made it home. The fire must self extinguish, which is unlikely if a fuel tank is damaged enough to leak. An oil fire may go out, but even then, it's a huge risk to stay in the aircraft. Pilots were trained to bail out in the event of a fire. It would be stupid not to.

Point 11 above: MA fuel burn was once 1.5. It was adjusted to 2.0 to encourage better game play.

[morfiend]

You consistently miss the point....

It's "gamey", because it's a game. One of HTC's goals is to encourage combat. Thus, systems are simplified. I'd rather be fighting than managing systems. There are plenty of flight sims that place emphasis on systems. Ever sit on a runway and watch other players land? It's often comical. Now, let' complicate this by having fully functioning systems and a reliability factor. It would be chaos. More than a few would become disenchanted and move on to another game.

Now, other things....

Point 5 above: Many aircraft suffer from stiffening controls well below compressibility speed. Just because your controls don't respond well doesn't mean you're into compressibility. This simulates the actual issues of the real aircraft. It reflects the lack of mechanical advantage of the stick and/or rudder pedals to overcome aerodynamic forces exerted on the control surfaces. If you're not buffeting, you're not into compressibility...

Point 8 above: Very few aircraft that suffered a fuel fire made it home. The fire must self extinguish, which is unlikely if a fuel tank is damaged enough to leak. An oil fire may go out, but even then, it's a huge risk to stay in the aircraft. Pilots were trained to bail out in the event of a fire. It would be stupid not to.

Point 11 above: MA fuel burn was once 1.5. It was adjusted to 2.0 to encourage better game play.

  Ah a voice of reason!   this is why I always read your posts,clear, consice and usually informative!



   

[bcadoo]

Came apart, decided it did not wish to fly with me any more. It liked to be in many pieces only not all at once so great shaking of the plane was felt. Where there was once a spinner , only a remembrance was left. Loudest noise I have heard in my plane, followed by throttle cut to ideal and engine no longing making that that wind that keeps the pilot cool.

Shaking stopped after last pieces of the back plate waved goodby. Then mixture was enriched and engine instantly came back to life. More power, still no shaking, nearest button on GPS was pressed.  Hearne Texas, very nice crop duster operation there. Turbo prop Air Tractors are cool.
On final something looks different then normal, wheels go screech screech, GREAT! I still have wheels on my plane, pull up next to the 1 hangar, get out. Hmm no spinner on my plane any more, that must be what made that noise.

1 week later after a solid week low ceilings , longest 40 mins I have had in an airplane taking n346ak home. The engined wanted to go into auto rough for some reason.

HiTech

I solo'd at Hearne about 25 years ago....great place to learn how to fly!

[Mar]

If you see me shut my engine off, it's because I'm side slipping too much. Ever try pulling back and rolling left in a 109 even with engine at idle?

[Ciaphas]

Point 5 above: Many aircraft suffer from stiffening controls well below compressibility speed. Just because your controls don't respond well doesn't mean you're into compressibility. This simulates the actual issues of the real aircraft. It reflects the lack of mechanical advantage of the stick and/or rudder pedals to overcome aerodynamic forces exerted on the control surfaces. If you're not buffeting, you're not into compressibility...

I read the original on I think page 1 and had to clean my monitor off cause I spit beer on it because I was laughing so hard. I think statistics will show that I spend more time with locked control surfaces than any other player in this game. Not the best thing to be known for but it's something I've been forced to embrace. I've had bombers that wouldn't pull out of a turn because I turned them to tight and I almost always auger in a fighter/attack aircraft.

Last night I was up in some Lancstukkas and had a Moss chacing me, my top turret and tail turret were either out of ammo (poor gunnery) or destroyed (poor SA) and as a last ditch effort I decided to barrel role my lanc (drones already dead). surprisingly the lanc kept it's arms on but I still got shot down by the Moss though he had to work a little bit for it..

Cheers,
Ciaphas

[redcatcherb412]

Gamey flying on his part.

Engine restart should have a few seconds of delay before power is regenerated, just to prevent or reduce that type of mess.

.
In a GV I guess it would equate to hauling asz in an m18, seeing a con lining up on your 6 in a strafe or bomb pass, wait till they're 1k away and hit a tree for a 52mph to zero in a split second to make the con overshoot. In real life of course all crewmembers in the turret would shoot out from the open turret like chaff and the driver would bounce off the inside like a BB in a cup.

[Mace2004]

As for the technical possibilities of switching your engine off and on in flight (besides the unusual situations most people have described here) there's one that did this everytime it flew.  The Gnome rotary (as opposed to radial) engine of WWI.  While it looked the same as a radial engine it actually had its crankshaft attached to the plane and the prop to the engine.  The entire engine itself rotated which means there was no effective way of throttling it except to switch it on and off and it did that the entire flight.  It was a pretty successful engine being used in the Fokker DR1 and Sopwith Camel.  I've heard audio of one operating and it sounds just like you'd expect, on, off, on, off.  Not saying this is relevant to the OP's question, just that it's technically feasible as a normal operating mode.

As for AH, there's another reason that you'll see engines shut off in flight.  My throttle quadrant has (had) both "afterburner" and "idle" detents.  When you moved the throttle full forward or aft there were two points of resistance where you had to push harder to move the throttle all the way.  In modern jets the forward detent lights the afterburner and the aft detent shuts the engine down.  I mapped mine for WEP and engine shutdown (and restart) but because these "detents" were just points of increased resistance vice physical "stops" it was quite easy to shut the engine down simply by aggressively bringing the throttle back abruptly so it happened quite frequently even though not intended.  I had a buddy do the same thing and accidentaly shut down his T-38 but it was on landing rollout. I was landing right behind him and couldn't figure out why he was just sitting there (Tower was wondering also).  Very embarassing for him.

In AH I found there was no discernable difference or advantage to shutting the engine down (obviously I mean for just that short period of time), the real downside is that it tells your opponent exactly what you're doing.  I no longer use either detent but that's just because both of them broke but I did like the realism of having the throttle set up the way I was used to.