Next Scenario Announcement

[UncleKurt]

 
...but Racdogg, the radar is clear down to 65 feet????
LOL
 

[waystin2]

I am so in for this one!   

[HighTone]

6 frames in BoG as the GL for the 446th BG in B-24's.... Made it to target twice and made it home only once. My prediction for the bombers in this fight.......pain.


Let's see....alt cap for the bombers going to be 19k again so the Luftwaffe doesn't complain? Let "The Great Allied Bomber Buffet 2012" begin.

[Fencer51]

Bomber Alt cap 26k, no 262s, no fighter alt cap.. 24+ targets, 3 minimum per frame must be hit.  Roughly 168 bombers, 160 escorts, 200 attackers.

And quite frankly.. I am not the guy who commanded BoG.

[Flossy]

Definitely in for this!  B17 or B24 for me!   

[waystin2]

Bomber Alt cap 26k, no 262s, no fighter alt cap.. 24+ targets, 3 minimum per frame must be hit. 

I love these settings Roc!   Especially the higher bomber alt and the no alt cap on the fighters.

[Krusty]

That begs the question: Why? Why higher alt caps? Bombers in these scenarios fly 1 inch under cap every time. In the real war you'd have almost a thousand bombers, most of them lower. These 26k bombers were more rare, and when they were unreachable the 200-mile-long chain of bombers below that were then targetted.

The only plane that had a chance of catching the bombers before they RTBed most times in BOG was the 262. Here we have near-max speeds. Historically they were quite interceptable. There's a big difference. Even in BOG with fighter alt caps we had allies constantly breaking it by large margins sometimes. With the current modeling (no cold fatique, no hard flying conditions, instant air spawns spitting allied fighters out at 30k) it simply stacks odds in the allied favor.


99.999% of the time German fighters were slaughtered in BOG by higher planes in superior numbers. It was rather awful at times.

Not sure why you'd want to make that.... even worse?



P.S. I will say this: Let them have no alt cap if they climb there themselves. No air spawns for allied fighters. The top echelon of LW planes in this game can barely bank at 30K without losing 1000ft in the process. All the allied ones can cruise at 40k without problem.

[Krusty]

Further, the multitude of P-47s were not flying around with fake double-capacity ammo belts like AH has. To carry any load under the wings this wasn't even possible, let alone ever done. Any load, like say DTs. Try having all the P-47s fly with historic 267rpg ammo loads. It changes the dynamics... No longer can they just horde-spam sectors racking up kills. Let's face it that is always a main tactic in these types of setups. If they do that with 267 rpg they'll be out of ammo and the bombers are toast. Do they stick with bombers? Escort in shifts (rotate on/off)? It changes the volume of threat in any individual sector. It forces them to think instead of just diving on hapless targets from 10k above, spraying 3600 rounds, and running away. Bit more of a cerebral game that way. More about the objective (bomber cover) than the kills.

If you want to make it better, if you want to make it reflect history a bit more, and if you want to make it more balanced, jugs would have overload ammo disabled at the arena level.

[Guppy35]

That begs the question: Why? Why higher alt caps? Bombers in these scenarios fly 1 inch under cap every time. In the real war you'd have almost a thousand bombers, most of them lower. These 26k bombers were more rare, and when they were unreachable the 200-mile-long chain of bombers below that were then targetted.

The only plane that had a chance of catching the bombers before they RTBed most times in BOG was the 262. Here we have near-max speeds. Historically they were quite interceptable. There's a big difference. Even in BOG with fighter alt caps we had allies constantly breaking it by large margins sometimes. With the current modeling (no cold fatique, no hard flying conditions, instant air spawns spitting allied fighters out at 30k) it simply stacks odds in the allied favor.


99.999% of the time German fighters were slaughtered in BOG by higher planes in superior numbers. It was rather awful at times.

Not sure why you'd want to make that.... even worse?



P.S. I will say this: Let them have no alt cap if they climb there themselves. No air spawns for allied fighters. The top echelon of LW planes in this game can barely bank at 30K without losing 1000ft in the process. All the allied ones can cruise at 40k without problem.

LOL Krusty I swear you aren't happy unless you are unhappy.  I don't recall the Luftwaffe suffering greatly in BoG or DGS.  I could swore they won em both didn't they?  Suck it up and fly, or don't.  The CO/XO teams on both sides are the ones who are putting this together and we seem fine with it.  Folks are getting enthused and you've got a complaint already. LOL

We're just trying to have some fun here.

BTW we've had this discussion about 8th AF bomber alts before.  Lets not redo it.  26K alt for bombers was not 'rare'.

447th BG October 44, time frame of the scenario.  Read em and weep.  Lowest was 22K once.  Highest was 28K once.  Average was 26K

[Fencer51]

That begs the question: Why? Why higher alt caps? Bombers in these scenarios fly 1 inch under cap every time. In the real war you'd have almost a thousand bombers, most of them lower. These 26k bombers were more rare, and when they were unreachable the 200-mile-long chain of bombers below that were then targetted.

The only plane that had a chance of catching the bombers before they RTBed most times in BOG was the 262. Here we have near-max speeds. Historically they were quite interceptable. There's a big difference. Even in BOG with fighter alt caps we had allies constantly breaking it by large margins sometimes. With the current modeling (no cold fatique, no hard flying conditions, instant air spawns spitting allied fighters out at 30k) it simply stacks odds in the allied favor.


99.999% of the time German fighters were slaughtered in BOG by higher planes in superior numbers. It was rather awful at times.

Not sure why you'd want to make that.... even worse?



P.S. I will say this: Let them have no alt cap if they climb there themselves. No air spawns for allied fighters. The top echelon of LW planes in this game can barely bank at 30K without losing 1000ft in the process. All the allied ones can cruise at 40k without problem.

Dear GOD Krusty..

First of all the Air Spawns are at 20k not 30k..

We are putting in an alt cap, calm down.. design is in flux hence it's not posted.

I can attest to MEETING LW fighters in BOG at my alt or HIGHER every damn frame.  If anyone got hit by higher Allied fighters it was after the initial sortie.  If they were slaughtered I commend your AAA gunners which seemed to do an effective job of wiping out the bombers.

Bombers in DGS didn't fly 1 inch under the Alt Cap.. and they won't here either.. every time like you stated.  Also I have previously refuted your 100% power complaint from DGS and I am not going to go through that all over, you can look it up if the search engine will allow it..

As to climbing without air spawns, you were one of the most complaining when we ran this originally about the hour wait for the Allies to get to alt, get into formation and start moving.  We cannot do that this time as the maps distances disallow it.. as does the lack of patience from the LW to sit in the tower for an hour waiting..  of course we got accused of running the LW outta gas last time, in fact I think YOU were arguing that the Allies would only take 25% in DGS which had us in stitches.

Now for once, could you PLEASE trust us to get things right.. calm down, and enjoy an event without complaining about it.  Thats all we want, is for you to enjoy yourself like everyone else.

Cheers,

Fencer

[cactuskooler]

99.999% of the time German fighters were slaughtered in BOG by higher planes in superior numbers. It was rather awful at times.

Not sure why you'd want to make that.... even worse?

Boy that suuure ain't how I remember it.  The overriding memory for me had to do with the bombers getting pulverized, and us escorts only being able to hold off the Luftwaffe for so long. 

Like this screenshot from frame 5.  You haven't sensed fear in this game until you escorts get jumped by a group outnumbering you 17 to 1, hundreds of miles behind enemy lines, and you got a bomber group expecting you to save them.  And it was awesome.

[OOZ662]

Further, the multitude of P-47s were not flying around with fake double-capacity ammo belts like AH has. To carry any load under the wings this wasn't even possible, let alone ever done. Any load, like say DTs. Try having all the P-47s fly with historic 267rpg ammo loads. It changes the dynamics... No longer can they just horde-spam sectors racking up kills. Let's face it that is always a main tactic in these types of setups. If they do that with 267 rpg they'll be out of ammo and the bombers are toast.

Just as a point of reference, in this last scenario, only two of my pilots took the full ammo loadout. They were allowed either choice and we asked who took what as a bit of climb-out discussion. Only one of us ever ran out of ammo once (can't remember which load he had), and that was due to him getting involved in a deck furball where one could basically hold the trigger down and hit a 109 somewhere.

[waystin2]

Boy that suuure ain't how I remember it.  The overriding memory for me had to do with the bombers getting pulverized, and us escorts only being able to hold off the Luftwaffe for so long.  

That is my memory of flying Allied in BOG as well.  Scratching my head here seriously Krusty...

[SEseph]

That is my memory of flying Allied in BOG as well.  Scratching my head here seriously Krusty...

I remember it the same way. We were clawing for any advantage against the Axis. I remember that one time we even blew right by the Axis planes just for reasons like this...

[Zoney]

Ladies & Gentelmen 

I shall not be able to participate because I work on Saturdays.  I shall look forward to the one after if it is run on Saturday Evenings like WSDG.

I understand it is someone else's turn to play whom were excluded before.

Good luck to you all and have fun