a different ENY horse to beat

[titanic3]

KI84  is too much for the K4 even with a great K4 stick.....

Ki84 is in the top 3 fighters ingame.


P38 is not in that list, not even close.

And that's why said it's pilot skill more than anything in a K4 vs Ki84 matchup. I've killed my share of Ki84s in a K4 and you've killed your fair share of K4s in a Ki84. At 10K+, all the K4 has to do is point it nose up and the Ki84 is done for. Under 5K, the Ki84 *should* beat the K4.

And I disagree, maybe it's because there are more P38s pilots and I keep running into them, but more often than not, I'll find myself with a 38 who knows what he's doing. It's no top 3, but I definitely think it's top 10.

1. F4U-4
2. Spit16
3. Ki-84
4. 109K4
5. Spit8
6. P38J
7. 109F4
8. La-7
9. F4U1A
10. N1K

That's my list anyways. In a 1 v 1 situation.

[titanic3]

I disagree here.  The ki has an awesome climbrate and it depeds on the E state both planes are given.

According to the AH stats, K4 @ 10K is 4,500f/m, Ki84 is 3,000f/m.

[ink]

And that's why said it's pilot skill more than anything in a K4 vs Ki84 matchup. I've killed my share of Ki84s in a K4 and you've killed your fair share of K4s in a Ki84. At 10K+, all the K4 has to do is point it nose up and the Ki84 is done for. Under 5K, the Ki84 *should* beat the K4.

And I disagree, maybe it's because there are more P38s pilots and I keep running into them, but more often than not, I'll find myself with a 38 who knows what he's doing. It's no top 3, but I definitely think it's top 10.

1. F4U-4
2. Spit16
3. Ki-84
4. 109K4
5. Spit8
6. P38J
7. 109F4
8. La-7
9. F4U1A
10. N1K

That's my list anyways. In a 1 v 1 situation.

 it always comes down to pilot skill in any match up....a noob is not gonna be able to kill a vet fighter no matter what planes they are in...I am talking 1vs1... equal E at the start of the fight.

a noob killing a vet fighting 3 or more guys is not really him beating the vet.

I am talking a Vet that actually fights.... not the guys that have been around for years that land 8-9 kills in their 51's and 190's that are ganging every sortie or vulching.....and think they are good....they could be here 10 years and a guy that has been here a year that actually has fought for that year will whip the guy that has been here 10 years....in a equal 1vs1 fight.

what it says on paper means squat.....

if you are dieing to the 38 in 1vs1 then you need to learn how to fight.

even with the very best in the 38 they are easy to kill 1vs1

oh....at typical MA ALTS

[titanic3]

who said I died in a fight with a 38? I said they'd know what they're doing.

As for pilot skill being the deciding factor in a matchup, I disagree. I'm pretty sure even a 2 week noob knows how to run when they're in trouble. Pick any 5.0 ENY plane and put it against a P40C or Spit1. Even when the vet gets on the noob's 6, the noob will just run, rinse and repeat until the vet gets hit by a bullet. That's not pilot skill winning, that's the plane winning.

[ink]

who said I died in a fight with a 38? I said they'd know what they're doing.

As for pilot skill being the deciding factor in a matchup, I disagree. I'm pretty sure even a 2 week noob knows how to run when they're in trouble. Pick any 5.0 ENY plane and put it against a P40C or Spit1. Even when the vet gets on the noob's 6, the noob will just run, rinse and repeat until the vet gets hit by a bullet. That's not pilot skill winning, that's the plane winning.

 

you completely missed what I am saying....could be I am not great with words.....

yes  it always comes down to pilot skill.....the only time the plane is the deciding factor is when the pilots skill levels are very close to each other.

the further the skill level from each other the less the plane matters....
the closer the skill level of pilots the more the planes matter....

a noob FIGHTING a vet...will not win..... I don't care if he is in a LA7 and the vet in a a6m2 or spit 1....if the noob is actually trying to fight...running away is NOT fighting....

[Lusche]

As for pilot skill being the deciding factor in a matchup, I disagree. I'm pretty sure even a 2 week noob knows how to run when they're in trouble.

No, they do not always know, and that's why they are still noobs. They do not notice the trouble they are in in the first place, or if they do, they do not realize that slamming the throttle forward and nosing down could save them from that enemy plane on their six. A noob does turn where he should dash away, he will try to run away when he should turn.
Using the own plane's strengths to exploit the enemy's plane weaknesses (while taking the tactcial situation into account) does require a certain minimum skill level, even when this strength is the easiest one to apply: Speed.
Even late war monster rplanes are being shot down quite frequently by "lesser" rides...

[Butcher]

I am talking a Vet that actually fights.... not the guys that have been around for years that land 8-9 kills in their 51's and 190's that are ganging every sortie or vulching.....and think they are good....they could be here 10 years and a guy that has been here a year that actually has fought for that year will whip the guy that has been here 10 years....in a equal 1vs1 fight.

This is 90% of those who think they are a vet player, kind of funny most of these trash talkers are always in some 5 eny aircraft (or dora9). While there are a handful 10% that are good period, the real test is not learning to win every 1vs1 - because in the main arena it never is going to happen.
You need GOOD SA, better Aim - and some common knowledge of ACM, I could split my time between the DA and Main Arena, but problem with facing only ONE person is it comes down to only one or two moves, whoever has the fastest trigger wins - in the Main Arena you can't focus on one target or you get blown out of the sky.

I jokingly take up higher ENY aircraft, but there's a reason for it - they tend to attract higher attention and you really have to be on your game to survive. More then likely you will die, prime example is yesterday I was zipping around in a P-40C at 10k - Co-alt I managed to Zap a Dora9 and La7, then I ran into two P51's trying
to boom and zoom me for a good 10 minutes - I was lucky Nshida was around otherwise I'd been double teamed, I lost a good 6-7k trying to avoid them when a simple HurriC comes to kill me.

There is no special moves to get someone off your 6, either you keep em locked up and wait for a mistake, or you get killed - more then likely you won't win in this situation, but it does keep your SA higher, and without the blazing guns you need to have aim to score critical hits.

[Debrody]

aww pilot skill vs plane... they both count. Mathematically and simplifyed, (pilot skill)*(plane abilities)=(how dangerous the pilot-plane combo is)

The p38's climb rate isnt as awesome, i got a couple rope-a-dopey ones by retracting the flaps and using the Gustav's better climbing, even tho they jumped me with E. Also, while their turn rate is better than the 109G, the turn radius isnt. Make them scissor and they die. I got all the respect to the 38 pilots who are mixing it up instead of the usual BnZ/rope-a-dope method.

Also, "pointing the k4's nose up and they are done" is a low move in my dictionary. I preferred to try to beat the pilot even tho he was in a better turning aircraft, that gave me more fun and satistfaction, but thats just me.

Butcher, i can agree with those statements except one... there ARE some moves to remove someone from your six, even if he is in a better turning aircraft. 

[Lusche]

the further the skill level from each other the less the plane matters....
the closer the skill level of pilots the more the planes matter....

I always have a picture of a see saw in mind. The two player's 'weight' is their respective skill level, the length of the lever is the planes capability. When my lever arm is very short, I have to weigh much more than the player on the opposite side to 'win'...

Player A skill x plane capability vs Player B skill x plane capability.

[tunnelrat]

I am revering to the "Fighters" like pand (who is anything but a fighter) not the ground war, I pay no attention to that...

Pand, who flies the P-51B over the P-51D the vast majority of the time?

You can throw your little tantrums over who runs (i.e., doesn't get suckered into the kind of fight you need them in to win) all you want, but slinging mud at Pand just because he's a more skilled pilot is beneath you.

You are all more than welcome to sit around and have your little prettied up Pony-D whine-n-jerk, but Pand is not only a damn good guy in real life he's poured hours of his own time into resources for the squad as well as the community.  When it comes to flying in-game, he "runs" for the following reasons:

1.  Pilot Wounded
2.  RTB Fuel
3.  RTB Ammo
4.  Squad Responsibilities (i.e., he runs DD fighter wing, sometimes that takes precedence)
5. Squadmate in trouble  - If, in a furball, any of the DD FS guys see/hear another one of us in trouble (and I know, because I usually am), they will disengage to help.

The Devil Dogs (and specifically the Fighter Squadron boys) adhere to a firm set of rules, not the least of which is that the majority of kills should be attained in either the P-51B or P51-D.  This rule set includes attempting to get your equipment back to base in one piece.  Pand has landed his Bravo with half a wing probably as many time as I have landed with both of them.

If you are implying that Pand is a one trick Pony (pun intention murky), feel free to check his FSO stats... I assure you he dominates in whatever he flies.

 

[ink]

I always have a picture of a see saw in mind. The two player's 'weight' is their respective skill level, the length of the lever is the planes capability. When my lever arm is very short, I have to weigh much more than the player on the opposite side to 'win'...

Player A skill x plane capability vs Player B skill x plane capability.

if you weigh a ton and your opposition weighs a pound it don't matter how long of a lever arm he has you will win 99.9% of the time.

good analogy BTW  

This is 90% of those who think they are a vet player, kind of funny most of these trash talkers are always in some 5 eny aircraft (or dora9). While there are a handful 10% that are good period, the real test is not learning to win every 1vs1 - because in the main arena it never is going to happen.
You need GOOD SA, better Aim - and some common knowledge of ACM, I could split my time between the DA and Main Arena, but problem with facing only ONE person is it comes down to only one or two moves, whoever has the fastest trigger wins - in the Main Arena you can't focus on one target or you get blown out of the sky.

I jokingly take up higher ENY aircraft, but there's a reason for it - they tend to attract higher attention and you really have to be on your game to survive. More then likely you will die, prime example is yesterday I was zipping around in a P-40C at 10k - Co-alt I managed to Zap a Dora9 and La7, then I ran into two P51's trying
to boom and zoom me for a good 10 minutes - I was lucky Nshida was around otherwise I'd been double teamed, I lost a good 6-7k trying to avoid them when a simple HurriC comes to kill me.

There is no special moves to get someone off your 6, either you keep em locked up and wait for a mistake, or you get killed - more then likely you won't win in this situation, but it does keep your SA higher, and without the blazing guns you need to have aim to score critical hits.

yup I would say 90% of the MA are just guys that don't really have that urge to be the best they can be and are ok with flying around in a gang and vulching and thinking they are good when they kill someone 4 vs1 or land 9 vulch/gang kills....or maybe they just want to have fun and attacking one con with 5 friends is fun for them

give me 20 minutes with them 1vs1 in a controlled DA fight ( I say 20 minutes to kick their butt over and over) they will quickly realize they are not so good.

[ink]

Pand, who flies the P-51B over the P-51D the vast majority of the time?

You can throw your little tantrums over who runs (i.e., doesn't get suckered into the kind of fight you need them in to win) all you want, but slinging mud at Pand just because he's a more skilled pilot is beneath you.

You are all more than welcome to sit around and have your little prettied up Pony-D whine-n-jerk, but Pand is not only a damn good guy in real life he's poured hours of his own time into resources for the squad as well as the community.  When it comes to flying in-game, he "runs" for the following reasons:

1.  Pilot Wounded
2.  RTB Fuel
3.  RTB Ammo
4.  Squad Responsibilities (i.e., he runs DD fighter wing, sometimes that takes precedence)
5. Squadmate in trouble  - If, in a furball, any of the DD FS guys see/hear another one of us in trouble (and I know, because I usually am), they will disengage to help.

The Devil Dogs (and specifically the Fighter Squadron boys) adhere to a firm set of rules, not the least of which is that the majority of kills should be attained in either the P-51B or P51-D.  This rule set includes attempting to get your equipment back to base in one piece.  Pand has landed his Bravo with half a wing probably as many time as I have landed with both of them.

If you are implying that Pand is a one trick Pony (pun intention murky), feel free to check his FSO stats... I assure you he dominates in whatever he flies.

 

 

I don't care how "cool" of a guy he is in the real world, I don't know him.... I can only judge him from what I see ingame, and from what I see he is the exact opposite of me...he runs at the first sign of losing advantage and comes back to pick when the guy he was just fighting is engaged with others....whatever.... however..... he wants to play is up to him, but I call it the way I see it and don't care about who's feelings I hurt.

I will be more then happy to take him to the DA and stomp a mud hole in his arse.... show him he is not a good fighter at all 


does that hurt your feelings???

to bad...truth hurt...... change your reality.

[Debrody]

Mr Tunnel-rat,
squad stuff is fun, but i wouldnt judge anyone based on their "squaddie-saving" skills.
I suggest to fight Ink in the DA. He prefers to stay and fight instead of running to pick. Even tho he isnt amongst the very best dogfighters, You will be surprised how quickly he will vax your butt. Both in 1v1 or 5v5.

[Butcher]

Mr Tunnel-rat,
squad stuff is fun, but i wouldnt judge anyone based on their "squaddie-saving" skills.
I suggest to fight Ink in the DA. He prefers to stay and fight instead of running to pick. Even tho he isnt amongst the very best dogfighters, You will be surprised how quickly he will vax your butt. Both in 1v1 or 5v5.

Give him my aim and he will wax just about 90% of the MA on first pass.

[tunnelrat]

Mr Tunnel-rat,
squad stuff is fun, but i wouldnt judge anyone based on their "squaddie-saving" skills.
I suggest to fight Ink in the DA. He prefers to stay and fight instead of running to pick. Even tho he isnt amongst the very best dogfighters, You will be surprised how quickly he will vax your butt. Both in 1v1 or 5v5.

I am an absolutely terrible fighter pilot...  at my peak, 10 years ago, I was, on a good day, mediocre.

I am glad Jetsom is as good as he is, I just think it is both comical and sad that he would sit and denigrate someones person based upon his inability to take them down.

Just because you (Debrody) and Jetsom wouldn't judge anyone based on their "squaddie-saving" skills doesn't mean it isn't important to some. I come at this from a different perspective (being that I was in the Marines, you leave no one behind, etc).  At the end of the day it IS just a game, but I am not going to remember how bad bellybutton you or any other ace gamer is/was.  I will remember squad/countrymates who put the TEAM above the ME, and enemies who showed skill AND class.  Pounding your chest about how awesome you are when outnumbered while crying about getting picked in the same breath is juvenile at best.

I am not about to apologize for Pand, who has been racking up both record kills and record hate for more than a decade in AH. 

On the other hand, I am not going to just sit by while you "awesome fighter jocks" take a dump on someone because you simply can't take them in the MA.  You can squawk about the DA all you want... my advice?  Stay there.  That will save you from being forced to cry about your inability to take down a P-51B in your Ki-84.