Crusader Tank

[Tank-Ace]

If AvA had more use, and there were more GV setups in FSO, I'd be with you completely on this. But really, this seems like putting the cart before the horse.


Since there are no allies vs axis in the MA's, that leaves scenarios as your primary argument here, and it SEEMS that when theres a GV setup, the allies tend to have air superiority. North Africa would be an exception, and the axis might (just took a big AP history exam, feeling too lazy and tired to check wiki) get a good GV buster with the Ju-87G-2  for that setup as well, although the axis are also lacking in the AA department in that one too (if we're being historical).


We get more GV use, hell yes, I'd want the crusader AA.




And I certinally want the Panzer III, and I don't know about justifying it above EVERYTHING else, but I can certinaly justify it above the Crusader, and perhaps even most of the other GV stuff we could add, at least from a non-LWMA-centric view point.

Panzer III lead the German Blitzkrieg across france, Africa, and Russia. It would be able to fight the T-34 without requiring a strech like letting Panzer IV F2's into an EW scenario, and depending on the cutoff date for EW, even the Panzer III L might make it in, and would be the Panzer IV of the EW arena (T-34 would become the Panther, and the KV-1, if we ever get it, would be the Tiger I).

Also, StuG III.



Anyway, off topic there.

[Butcher]

If AvA had more use, and there were more GV setups in FSO, I'd be with you completely on this. But really, this seems like putting the cart before the horse.


Since there are no allies vs axis in the MA's, that leaves scenarios as your primary argument here, and it SEEMS that when theres a GV setup, the allies tend to have air superiority. North Africa would be an exception, and the axis might (just took a big AP history exam, feeling too lazy and tired to check wiki) get a good GV buster with the Ju-87G-2  for that setup as well, although the axis are also lacking in the AA department in that one too (if we're being historical).


We get more GV use, hell yes, I'd want the crusader AA.

I dont need to say anything else, Panzer III NOW.


And I certinally want the Panzer III, and I don't know about justifying it above EVERYTHING else, but I can certinaly justify it above the Crusader, and perhaps even most of the other GV stuff we could add, at least from a non-LWMA-centric view point.

Panzer III lead the German Blitzkrieg across france, Africa, and Russia. It would be able to fight the T-34 without requiring a strech like letting Panzer IV F2's into an EW scenario, and depending on the cutoff date for EW, even the Panzer III L might make it in, and would be the Panzer IV of the EW arena (T-34 would become the Panther, and the KV-1, if we ever get it, would be the Tiger I).

Also, StuG III.



Anyway, off topic there.

[RedBull1]

No offense to you guys, butcher or Tank...buut....why more EW tanks? Almost no one tanks in EW, and if you up one in LW you will get 1 shotted from 8k out by a panzer F....Or strafed by more planes with 20mm...Scenerios? yeeaah....buuut Scenerios are once every few months, so we would probably use it 2-3 times a year? Is it worth the time, effort, and money right now, over planes, etc.? Eeeh, not IMO however I would like some more mid or late war tanks! I love tanking don't get me wrong, but EW 1 ping and youre in the tower tanks just don't sound fun to me...Not to mention how many shots it would probably take to kill any tank we have now (not including the M18 or M8). Oh well, that's my thoughts 

[tunnelrat]

even $15 a month would help ...

[tunnelrat]

No offense to you guys, butcher or Tank...buut....why more EW tanks? Almost no one tanks in EW, and if you up one in LW you will get 1 shotted from 8k out by a panzer F....Or strafed by more planes with 20mm...Scenerios? yeeaah....buuut Scenerios are once every few months, so we would probably use it 2-3 times a year? Is it worth the time, effort, and money right now, over planes, etc.? Eeeh, not IMO however I would like some more mid or late war tanks! I love tanking don't get me wrong, but EW 1 ping and youre in the tower tanks just don't sound fun to me...Not to mention how many shots it would probably take to kill any tank we have now (not including the M18 or M8). Oh well, that's my thoughts 

Crusader + 40mm Bofors would get used in LWA...

[Fox]

Does anyone know how the 40 mm Bofors compares to the 37 mm german currently in the game in terms of trajectory and damage inflicted?

[Tank-Ace]

No offense to you guys, butcher or Tank...buut....why more EW tanks? Almost no one tanks in EW, and if you up one in LW you will get 1 shotted from 8k out by a panzer F....Or strafed by more planes with 20mm...Scenerios? yeeaah....buuut Scenerios are once every few months, so we would probably use it 2-3 times a year? Is it worth the time, effort, and money right now, over planes, etc.? Eeeh, not IMO however I would like some more mid or late war tanks! I love tanking don't get me wrong, but EW 1 ping and youre in the tower tanks just don't sound fun to me...Not to mention how many shots it would probably take to kill any tank we have now (not including the M18 or M8). Oh well, that's my thoughts 

IDK about the crusader, but the Panzer III was actually better armored to the rear and sides (IIRC) than the Panzer IV. Roof armor was the same I think.

Also, its pretty much everyone is limited by the same odds of first-shot-hit at X-yards. 1500yds is really about the limit for scoring a direct hit on the first shot on a moving target. Beyond that, you're really just going to be putting a lot of rounds NEAR the target, but not many or any ON target.

At 2000yds, even stationary targets require some fine-turning of the range dial.


So yeah, they wouldn't have the punch of the LW tanks, but both the Crusader III and the Panzer III L would be dangerous if well driven. Infact, they would make almost ideal opponents for each other, since they can both penetrate each other's armor out to about the same range. Although if the Mk III got APDS rounds, I think the Panzer III should get PzGr.40 (APCR/HVAP).

[Fish42]

One advantage that the Crusader AA II would have in AH, is it looks like it would be much harder to kill without ords/tankbusters


Here is a great writeup on the Crusader III AA units: http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=3277

[Tank-Ace]

wouldn't be any harder than taking out a wirby. Easier to turret? Yes, kill? No.

[Fish42]

wouldn't be any harder than taking out a wirby. Easier to turret? Yes, kill? No.

You do know you can strafe wirbles and blow them up now with 50cals right?

This thing has an armored roof and I believe the driver is in a separated area, therefore even if your turret is taken out you could still drive away and resupply.

[Tank-Ace]

You do know you can strafe wirbles and blow them up now with 50cals right?

This thing has an armored roof and I believe the driver is in a separated area, therefore even if your turret is taken out you could still drive away and resupply.

You do know its rather difficult to do, right? I've never been killed by .50's, or even 20 or 23mm weapons when in a wirby, and I've never managed to kill a wirby or ostwind with .50's or 20mm's, though I've done it with the Russian 23mm's once or twice.

Theoretically, its harder to kill, but in practice, its going to be easier, most likely. Weaker armor, less firepower, more restricted view.

[Fish42]

No its much easier now, they patched a bug that stop a wirble taking damage after their turret was smoked.

[Karnak]

Just did some offline tests.  A6M3 could easily turret the Whirbel but not kill it.  Mosquito VI could kill it, though it usually took a couple of passes.  The first one I killed died on the first pass from the Mossie, but the A6M3 had already shot it up badly.

[lyric1]

One advantage that the Crusader AA II would have in AH, is it looks like it would be much harder to kill without ords/tankbusters
(Image removed from quote.)

Here is a great writeup on the Crusader III AA units: http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=3277

Good article. Numbers compared to our German flack productions is a non issue. 

[Butcher]

Just did some offline tests.  A6M3 could easily turret the Whirbel but not kill it.  Mosquito VI could kill it, though it usually took a couple of passes.  The first one I killed died on the first pass from the Mossie, but the A6M3 had already shot it up badly.

Are you diving straight down? i've killed a few wirbs while diving almost straight down on them, usually I will turret them with a Hurri or such then dive straight down on top of the turret, usually grants a kill.