How Chuwie ruined the game today

[Iraqvet]

Horde comes, you up defend = combat, I would think

Could not have responded to that any better.....As he was trying to say there is no combat in a combat game where there are thousands of kills each day....lol. Aces High ......Combat Via Land, Sea, and Air. 

[DMGOD]

c'mon you cant be serious. The extent that 1/2 these "missions" go to to take a base w/out encountering any resistance and when they are unable to drop hangers or take the base they quit. Or when they do take a base they don't defend it. You can say what you want but even you know it's lame

[matt]

Yes he does think 20 is a Hoard lol and cannot be dealt with......I guess in the real world when we rolled missions in Northern Iraq we would have been considered a Mega Massive Hoard. Its too bad they didnt go complain to Saddam to change the way we engaged them so they could win more often.
I think what gets lost in all this is the fun of making a mission and how much fun it is for those who participate in it as well. I think it is salt in thier wound when when a base in leveled, but sometimes that is the only way too take a base when massive numbers are on defending it so yeah its gonna get leveled. And even if you didnt level it they would still complain about the Mission/Hoard killing them. Other times simply leaving most all up except town, or in case of a VBase just deacking by two people gets the base captured. 

[matt]

My understanding (and I very well could be wrong) is that this game and it's many different aspects were created to promote combat. I think why a lot of us disagree with the  "whack-a-mole" style type of play is that it negates the combat part of the game. What is the point of playing a game designed to promote combat if their is no combat.

Who want to spend 2 hours
trying to get 1 bases.only to log off come back and all your bases are gone because your trying to promote a fight. land grab becomes necessary because if
you don't they will.

[Iraqvet]

c'mon you cant be serious. The extent that 1/2 these "missions" go to to take a base w/out encountering any resistance and when they are unable to drop hangers or take the base they quit. Or when they do take a base they don't defend it. You can say what you want but even you know it's lame

So if a mission ups to take a base and is seen by you and others, and you 'Choose' to do nothing about it except whine and stay in tower or fly somewhere else and not defend base simply because you are avoiding the Combat that you seem to be seeking per your quote ....then my only question is....Who's fault is that? I'd call it a simple lack of motivation.

Lameness = Another somebody done somebody wrong song. Generation "Daddy make them play the way I want them too NOWWWWW"

Adapt, Overcome, grow some thicker skin   

[DMGOD]

Who want to spend 2 hours
trying to get 1 bases.only to log off come back and all your bases are gone because your trying to promote a fight. land grab becomes necessary because if
you don't they will.

And the same could be said who wants to spend 2 hours chasing around hordes that do anything they can to avoid a fight (combat).
I'm all for base taking but I prefer to do it in a manner that encourages a good fight. How rewarding is it to take a undefended base especially with 20-50 guys? How can you feel any sense of accomplishment when you honestly haven't done anything that required the least bit of skill.

[DMGOD]

So if a mission ups to take a base and is seen by you and others, and you 'Choose' to do nothing about it except whine and stay in tower or fly somewhere else and not defend base simply because you are avoiding the Combat that you seem to be seeking per your quote ....then my only question is....Who's fault is that? I'd call it a simple lack of motivation.

Lameness = Another somebody done somebody wrong song. Generation "Daddy make them play the way I want them too NOWWWWW"

Adapt, Overcome, grow some thicker skin   

Again c'mon man you can't be serious you don't even believe the crap u are writing.
I spend almost all my time looking for and fighting the horde (fergilicious) and you know this.
I am just saying that the type of game play that you are so in favor of is LAME
How can you feel any sense of accomplishment when you have done nothing but drop a bomb on a building w/50 other people (3/4s of whom go in w/the bomb).
 

[The Fugitive]

Given the close distances of the bases in the MA it inherently gives the offensive mission the advantage. Most large missions start on the country channel and take several minutes or more to fill up. The more that show for the mission, the longer it takes to prepare. Once it's launched, the defense has the same amount of time or less to form a counter mission. By the time you could organize any decent defense against a horde the base is flat and there are goons in town. The exception to that rule is when the offensive mission fails to meet its objectives in the first pass or two. Then the enemy has gathered enough strength to beat the horde back. Usually, when the horde gets bloodied, they disappear and pop up somewhere else where there is no resistance. This is why I feel the argument "It's your fault you didn't get a fighter sweep up" has zero merit. The whackamole game play is destructive to the game because it encourages people to avoid fights when the sole purpose of this game is to get into combat with other virtual players.

Eventually, the hard core defenders will get pissed every fight is a 10 on 1 and leave in disgust. Then the hordelings will have no more baby seals to club and pat each other on the back for. At that point, there is no need to waste fifteen bucks bombing crap that doesn't shoot back.

So plan you're horde mission. Take off a few sectors back and announce it on 200. Then let the fun commence as you fight your way to target and get true satisfaction when you do accomplish your mission.

Well said.

Per your quote....."(I'm guessing mid 20's)".

<snip for space>

You never did say how old you were, hit a bit too close to the mark?

OK, in stead of saying how many missions Ive been in or ran, I'll just call it "experience" and how you understand that I have a vast amount of it when it comes to this game. In my experience a horde doesn't stop a horde. Knight horde ups to hit Bish, Bish horde hits Rooks, and the Rook horde hits Knits. They don't defend, they attack. The best/largest horde takes bases faster than the one attacking their flank so it keeps/gets them in the lead toward the big "win".

Maybe I should fly as a nit for awhile and follow your horde.... err squad around for a bit. See if what you say really does happen. I haven't been a knit in awhile.

The point I was trying to make with the mention of Chuwies mission was Why do you need 20= guy for a v base? 5-6 guys is more than enough. The other 15= have nothing to do, whats the point of coming along in that mission? Those same 15 guys could be otw to an airfield near by and accomplish 2 things. First distraction of the attack on the V base, second initial trust of a capture on the airfield. The first 5-6 guy that capture the V base could come in as "clean up" of the airfield capture.

The reason they DON'T do this is one if they fail at a mission or two they lose those players flying with them. Nobody want to fly a mission that doesn't succeed everyone time. And the reason they would fail, is because they don't have skill, there is no reason to improve because if you miss, your 5-6 buddies with you might finish it off for you. Hiding in the horde doesn't teach you to get better, it stunts your growth in the game.

A dogfight would be an example of a PvP experience, and bomber raids would be an example of a PvE experience(with possible PvP entanglement), however the goal is a PvE objective, use bombs to destroy destructibles. Fighters can also carry bombs and rockets again to obtain a PvE objective. Using said bombs against GVs(aka bomb****ing) would be an example of PvP.

This game has both.

It's not a PvE experience/game, PvE is a means to an end, that being to create more options for combat. If you take off in a bomber for a run and expect NOT to be attacked, your a fool. Sure you may do it now and then, but if you expecting it your in the wrong game. Like DMgod pointed out, its a game of combat. Continually avoiding combat should not be allowed. NOEs use to be rampant an they ONLY way to take a base. HTC changed a few things and now they can't hide so much and must fight. The hordes, while always being part of the game, are now getting to the point that it is the ONLY way to take a base. Why have a combat game that is slowly losing all the combat?

you just have to have the last word

 

Yup, and I try to spell it right as well.

Yes he does think 20 is a Hoard lol and cannot be dealt with......I guess in the real world when we rolled missions in Northern Iraq we would have been considered a Mega Massive Hoard. Its too bad they didnt go complain to Saddam to change the way we engaged them so they could win more often.
I think what gets lost in all this is the fun of making a mission and how much fun it is for those who participate in it as well. I think it is salt in thier wound when when a base in leveled, but sometimes that is the only way too take a base when massive numbers are on defending it so yeah its gonna get leveled. And even if you didnt level it they would still complain about the Mission/Hoard killing them. Other times simply leaving most all up except town, or in case of a VBase just deacking by two people gets the base captured.  

Yup, lets compare the "real world" with a game   Tell you what, the next time I kill you in the game you don't come ok? That line is about as dumb as the one I typed.

When the game becomes unbalanced due to a type of play HTC makes changes. Remember the NOEs. Lets say a squad shows up and is 15 people strong every night and there one and only mission is to bust hordes, and they are VERY good at it. Every time a mission of anything over 10 people launches this group shows up and crushes them before they get with in 10 miles of a target. How would the "horders" reply? They don't have the skill to oppose them, they get knocked down EVERY time they up. They are not having any more fun capturing bases. Would they be happy and continue "playing" the game or would they be logging out?

Seriously do not get why we can't have zone ENY or something similar.

Ex:

1. Maximum of 10 planes can lift off at a base every 2 minutes.
2. Zone ENY - the larger amount of people in a sector, the higher the ENY limit for all bases in that sector.
3. Perked ordinance
4. An early warning system, for example if 10+ plane lift off at the same base within 30 seconds of each other, a system message goes out that notifies of "enemy presence" in that field.
5. Multiple radar towers at a field.
6. More manned guns at fields (not auto ack, but *manned* guns).
7. Manned guns in town.

I think #1 might be a bit drastic, 3 and 5 wouldn't help, or in the case of perked ord, hurt the new player. I don't think we will see a "zone ENY", but I'd love to see an early warning system even if it isn't 100% reliable. Maybe 1 in 5 it misses a mission, or gives a report of one that really isn't there, just to keep some of the surprise in the game.

[The Fugitive]

So if a mission ups to take a base and is seen by you and others, and you 'Choose' to do nothing about it except whine and stay in tower or fly somewhere else and not defend base simply because you are avoiding the Combat that you seem to be seeking per your quote ....then my only question is....Who's fault is that? I'd call it a simple lack of motivation.

Lameness = Another somebody done somebody wrong song. Generation "Daddy make them play the way I want them too NOWWWWW"

Adapt, Overcome, grow some thicker skin   

I up to defend....unless Im defending against the horde on the other side of the map. People are not just sitting in the tower, they are just tired of getting hammered by 10-1 odds with out a chance to compete. Kinda the same why the newbs were getting pushed out of the game before HTC split the arenas to help keep his numbers from dropping.

You seem to be a bit narrow minded. While I say hordes are bad, I'm NOT ignoring them. Killing lemmings is easy in the horde, surviving, not so much  I just think that if it continues down the road it's on that HTC will take action and a lot of people....including myself, may not like the "fix". If the horde "leaders" took a bit of the initiative and spread out their hordes but continued to take there bases, the issue would disappear.
 

[BaldEagl]

First of all I'm not much of a horde type player.  I fly alone and generally prefer a good one on one but am willing to take on 2, 3 or sometimes even 4 or more opponents depending on what I'm flying and how I feel.

That said I sometimes find myself flying at the edges of the horde looking for the few that might have slipped through or those that are incoming from a neighboring field.  Sometimes this is the only way to find any type of fight on the map and seems highly dependant on time of day and number of players on-line.

As a fighter pilot first I'm occasionally in a furball.  Isn't a furball just one horde against another?  Answer: Yes.  I get the differentiation that the furballers are there to fight, or at least seemingly there to fight.  In our glorification of the furball we forget the pickers, HOers and other less desirable players involved, maybe because they are at least putting themselves in harms way.

So why do furballs start?  Often it's because a group of players took a remote field behind the front lines of the existing battle.  The side that lost the base then ups to try to take it back while those who recently captured it and others up to defend.  Pretty soon the furballers and the landgrabbers are immersed in a long drawn out fight.  Quite possibly while those who actually took the base are off doing something else.  I formed a carrier mission one night expressly to take that type of remote base.  Originally planned for 16 pilots so many wanted to join it turned into a horde but the battles in that corner of the map raged for hours afterward.

So why aren't the players that took the base the defenders?  Likely they don't have the skills to be effective in that role.  They might be new to the game and see a greater contribution to the war effort by taking another base rather than being slaughtered over and over in a furball.  You really can't blame a player for wanting to make a positive contribution and at a certain level in their development killing buildings in the midst of the safety of a horde is totally understandable.  After the mission mentioned above I watched as much of the horde dissipated to be replaced by more seasoned players looking for fights.  The horde had served a positive purpose in the game.

I get the frustration over the "whack-a-mole" style of play.  You up to go get into a fight and suddenly there's no one around there anymore.  This has always been the case.  The map changes fast sometimes.  People have the freedom to move around and do different things.  Just because a fight is going on somewhere right now doesn't mean it will be going on five minutes from now.  Maybe people got tired of being killed, maybe they were called away to defend a field, maybe they just got bored or saw a different opportunity somewhere else on the map.  Remember, each player is trying to be effective and that means different things for different people of varying skill levels.

Despite Fugi's rose colored glasses hordes have always existed.  In 1996/1997 I led a squad of over 60 people in Air Warrior.  We'd have 20ish on-line for squad nights.  Often we'd be hitting multiple targets but occasionally we'd all pile in.  In those days the arena only held 50 players so we were almost half the arena population.  Diminishing our numbers somewhat you couldn't gun your own bomber back then so we had to have at least 2 and sometimes up to 7 people in a single bomber.  Ahh... those were the days.

Wait!  Did I say "those were the days?"  The days when we horded the Air Warrior arena?  I did.  We were all new to the game back then.  We flew together for survival and to try to be as effective as possible.  We flew as a team.  I think all players begin this way.  Eventually some will grow beyond that and become very good fighter pilots.  Those that do may begin to dislike the hordes from which they came.  They'll attempt to get hoarder's to see things their way.  I mean they saw the light so why can't others?  Give it time and some will.  It's all in the natural evolution of the player.  Some will ascend to the top of the foodchain while others plateau at various levels below that.  Regardless of where they are every player is going to log on and try to be effective putting what they know to the best use possible.  It's not going to change and never has.

[The Fugitive]

Despite Fugi's rose colored glasses hordes have always existed. 

LOL!! I agree with what you said, even the above statement, however the issue is becoming more of the norm than what was done sometimes.

Some times we had MASSIVE squad ops with many squads grouping up to "TAKE IT TO THE ENEMY", but most of those were spread out fights with groups hitting several fields at once. I don't want to see the big battles disappear, I just want to see a way brought in to fight them.

As it is now the only way you see a field taken is if the horde is going for it. No longer do you see squad nights with 10-12 guys running missions taking bases. It an all or nothing thing now. Either your in the horde, or being crushed by the horde, no more middle ground. If the hordes were split up there would be more battles, more chances to take bases, as well as to lose them, but at least there would be a fight.

[Kalain]

It's not a PvE experience/game, PvE is a means to an end, that being to create more options for combat. If you take off in a bomber for a run and expect NOT to be attacked, your a fool. Sure you may do it now and then, but if you expecting it your in the wrong game. Like DMgod pointed out, its a game of combat. Continually avoiding combat should not be allowed. NOEs use to be rampant an they ONLY way to take a base. HTC changed a few things and now they can't hide so much and must fight. The hordes, while always being part of the game, are now getting to the point that it is the ONLY way to take a base. Why have a combat game that is slowly losing all the combat?

PvE is not just a means to an end, its a means to capturing the objective, and moving forward to win the war. It does not create more options for combat, it is creating an objective, something worth attacking and defending that drives the combat forward. It gives purpose and reason, and is a strategic element of this game that causes conflicts. The whole war can be won with Bombs, rockets, HE shells, guns on ack and buildings, and troops without firing a single shot at an enemy. But it hasn't come down to just that(except at night when sometimes we don't have the ability to spread thinly and stop all the solo captures). Can you honestly blame the various people who orchestrate these missions to do it in an effective and expedient way?

Would you condemn me avoiding planes in my PT Boat so that I can effectively get a torpedo firing solution and get in range of the carrier and possibly save my base?
Would you condemn me for deacking/vulching/destroying VH and removing the defenders will to fight?
Would you condemn me for Boom and Zooming almost completely remove the capability of my opponent to fight back?
Would you condemn the bombers going to 28k alt to reduce the chances of getting intercepted?
I know you would condemn a 10-25 man mission to flatten a base when 130+ people on each country that would up in force and stop the mission from being successful.

So just so I understand here...
You would rather every war be several or many drawn out furballs, that take hours and hours of pushing back and forth to the base and capture it. Sounds like your average knit furball push to me.
You don't expect to be almost constant draws and map resets because no one could win in time?


Would you prefer hangers and field ack(as well as extremely accurate and lethal) be indestructible, thus the defenders have a safe takeoff and can/will always fight?
Would you prefer an Altitude cap so bombers can't fly above the fight to avoid it and hit his targets?
Would you prefer that CVs whose home ports are not owned by its country to despawn(and thus prevent hiding it) and promote more CV fights?
Would you prefer that Radar was indestructible? Thus removing all the surprise attacks?

Just curious?

[Iraqvet]

Well said.

You never did say how old you were, hit a bit too close to the mark?

OK, in stead of saying how many missions Ive been in or ran, I'll just call it "experience" and how you understand that I have a vast amount of it when it comes to this game. In my experience a horde doesn't stop a horde. Knight horde ups to hit Bish, Bish horde hits Rooks, and the Rook horde hits Knits. They don't defend, they attack. The best/largest horde takes bases faster than the one attacking their flank so it keeps/gets them in the lead toward the big "win".

Maybe I should fly as a nit for awhile and follow your horde.... err squad around for a bit. See if what you say really does happen. I haven't been a knit in awhile.

The point I was trying to make with the mention of Chuwies mission was Why do you need 20= guy for a v base? 5-6 guys is more than enough. The other 15= have nothing to do, whats the point of coming along in that mission? Those same 15 guys could be otw to an airfield near by and accomplish 2 things. First distraction of the attack on the V base, second initial trust of a capture on the airfield. The first 5-6 guy that capture the V base could come in as "clean up" of the airfield capture.

The reason they DON'T do this is one if they fail at a mission or two they lose those players flying with them. Nobody want to fly a mission that doesn't succeed everyone time. And the reason they would fail, is because they don't have skill, there is no reason to improve because if you miss, your 5-6 buddies with you might finish it off for you. Hiding in the horde doesn't teach you to get better, it stunts your growth in the game.

It's not a PvE experience/game, PvE is a means to an end, that being to create more options for combat. If you take off in a bomber for a run and expect NOT to be attacked, your a fool. Sure you may do it now and then, but if you expecting it your in the wrong game. Like DMgod pointed out, its a game of combat. Continually avoiding combat should not be allowed. NOEs use to be rampant an they ONLY way to take a base. HTC changed a few things and now they can't hide so much and must fight. The hordes, while always being part of the game, are now getting to the point that it is the ONLY way to take a base. Why have a combat game that is slowly losing all the combat?
  

Yup, and I try to spell it right as well.

Yup, lets compare the "real world" with a game   Tell you what, the next time I kill you in the game you don't come ok? That line is about as dumb as the one I typed.

When the game becomes unbalanced due to a type of play HTC makes changes. Remember the NOEs. Lets say a squad shows up and is 15 people strong every night and there one and only mission is to bust hordes, and they are VERY good at it. Every time a mission of anything over 10 people launches this group shows up and crushes them before they get with in 10 miles of a target. How would the "horders" reply? They don't have the skill to oppose them, they get knocked down EVERY time they up. They are not having any more fun capturing bases. Would they be happy and continue "playing" the game or would they be logging out?

I think #1 might be a bit drastic, 3 and 5 wouldn't help, or in the case of perked ord, hurt the new player. I don't think we will see a "zone ENY", but I'd love to see an early warning system even if it isn't 100% reliable. Maybe 1 in 5 it misses a mission, or gives a report of one that really isn't there, just to keep some of the surprise in the game.

I am long gone from my 20's since you are so concerned about my age. I am however convinced that you are far too concerned at having the last word and your opinions held as the gold standard to everyone so I will leave you to your "Much Ado About Hoarding/Missions" postings....and good luck with that sell.

I have made my point, and will let you argue/chase your own tail to no avail on this thread. Missions/Hoards have always been here and will continue to do so..... simple enough.

The sooner you understand that you cannot control "ALL" in game the more fun you will have instead of cryin and moaning on threads about how lame it is and what you cannot control.
Just as bad is wishing for more reqs/rules from AH to make the game more to your favor....simply because it is what "YOU" see as fit for all.......lol

I will let you have last words cupcake 

 

[DMGOD]

I am long gone from my 20's since you are so concerned about my age. I am however convinced that you are far too concerned at having the last word and your opinions held as the gold standard to everyone so I will leave you to your "Much Ado About Hoarding/Missions" postings....and good luck with that sell.

I have made my point, and will let you argue/chase your own tail to no avail on this thread. Missions/Hoards have always been here and will continue to do so..... simple enough.

The sooner you understand that you cannot control "ALL" in game the more fun you will have instead of cryin and moaning on threads about how lame it is and what you cannot control.
Just as bad is wishing for more reqs/rules from AH to make the game more to your favor....simply because it is what "YOU" see as fit for all.......lol

I will let you have last words cupcake 

certainly don't act like you are long gone from your 20's

What point do you feel you have made? I haven't read anything that you have written that makes any point imho.
you stick to ur guns and defend ur lame game play hiding in hordes flying 30 lancs noe and being unable to drop a single field.
You hold ur head up high and be proud of the abundance of skill you and ur squad exude.

[The Fugitive]

PvE is not just a means to an end, its a means to capturing the objective, and moving forward to win the war. It does not create more options for combat, it is creating an objective, something worth attacking and defending that drives the combat forward. It gives purpose and reason, and is a strategic element of this game that causes conflicts. The whole war can be won with Bombs, rockets, HE shells, guns on ack and buildings, and troops without firing a single shot at an enemy. But it hasn't come down to just that(except at night when sometimes we don't have the ability to spread thinly and stop all the solo captures). Can you honestly blame the various people who orchestrate these missions to do it in an effective and expedient way?

Yes the war could be won that way, but if that is all your after, cancel your subscription, your ISP and save yourself some money, because you can do exactly that off line. Everything in this game is here to create opportunities for combat. It is a game of combat. Your want one of only land grabbing, go play Monopoly.

Would you condemn me avoiding planes in my PT Boat so that I can effectively get a torpedo firing solution and get in range of the carrier and possibly save my base?
Would you condemn me for deacking/vulching/destroying VH and removing the defenders will to fight?
Would you condemn me for Boom and Zooming almost completely remove the capability of my opponent to fight back?
Would you condemn the bombers going to 28k alt to reduce the chances of getting intercepted?
I know you would condemn a 10-25 man mission to flatten a base when 130+ people on each country that would up in force and stop the mission from being successful.

I would be happy to see all of the about as even the 10-25 man mission, as long as there was a counter to it. Give me an early warning system like someone else posted and I'd be happy, as well as many others.

So just so I understand here...
You would rather every war be several or many drawn out furballs, that take hours and hours of pushing back and forth to the base and capture it. Sounds like your average knit furball push to me.
You don't expect to be almost constant draws and map resets because no one could win in time?

Not at all, while furballing is fun I would love to see more strategic fights to win the war. There is all the incentive in the world to attack in this game, and none to defend. Defending depends on a certain skill to clear out invaders and being in the right place in the right time. Too many players don't have the skill and so avoid defending but happily join the horde attacking the next base over.

Would you prefer hangers and field ack(as well as extremely accurate and lethal) be indestructible, thus the defenders have a safe takeoff and can/will always fight?

of course not, but I'd like the missions IDed so I could get up in time to intercept them, even if it's only me.

Would you prefer an Altitude cap so bombers can't fly above the fight to avoid it and hit his targets?

No, but Id like to see one where bombers can't fly below. If bombers are dive bombing and dropping below 5k I'd love to see the bombs just disappear. WHen you picture bombing with the classic B17 you don't picture diving in at 450 mph strait down with your formation following you in.

Would you prefer that CVs whose home ports are not owned by its country to despawn(and thus prevent hiding it) and promote more CV fights?

I'm of the opinion that "if you don't use it, you lose it" Hiding CVs is lame. It's in the game to be used. You don't want to lose it, DEFEND it..... oh wait, they don't do that in this game.

Would you prefer that Radar was indestructible? Thus removing all the surprise attacks?

Just curious?

Not indestructible, but harder to destroy. One guy shouldn't be able to fly around and kill the dar at 4-5 bases in one flight. It should take a couple guys just to kill one bases radar.

Your new here Kalain. You have to know that a lot of the things in the game are 10 years old. Back then we only had a few buffs, and no formations. If you had 5-6 guys in a mission you were pushing "horde" status. Radar had to be easy to take out because a full arena was 100 guys total for all 3 sides. Now it's easy to have a 100 guys on one team. So whats wrong with it taking a few more guys to take out radar? To do it would require a mission in and of it's self. 3 guys to one base, 3 guys to another to cover the route in, and 3 guys for the target base. 9 guys flying over 3 areas of the map= a great chance at combat. OH wait, thats right we MUST avoid combat.

A bunch of us pay our $15 to out think our opponents, out plan them, out fight them. Others, not so much. Again, if your trying to avoid combat, why are you playing a combat game?

Just curious.

I am long gone from my 20's since you are so concerned about my age. I am however convinced that you are far too concerned at having the last word and your opinions held as the gold standard to everyone so I will leave you to your "Much Ado About Hoarding/Missions" postings....and good luck with that sell.

I have made my point, and will let you argue/chase your own tail to no avail on this thread. Missions/Hoards have always been here and will continue to do so..... simple enough.

The sooner you understand that you cannot control "ALL" in game the more fun you will have instead of cryin and moaning on threads about how lame it is and what you cannot control.
Just as bad is wishing for more reqs/rules from AH to make the game more to your favor....simply because it is what "YOU" see as fit for all.......lol

I will let you have last words cupcake 

 

ummmm and what point would that be, I must have missed it.