Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%

[TonyJoey]

Had a feeling you were waiting for that so you could cherrypick it out of whatever I said. The latter option (Maybe even moved to 2 years) would alleviate that problem for the most part.

[VonMessa]

Had a feeling you were waiting for that so you could cherrypick it out of whatever I said. The latter option (Maybe even moved to 2 years) would alleviate that problem for the most part.

So the market would flood with whatever inventory was left (still allowing access to the items), essentially creating brisk trading in the private sector or black market in which said items would continue to exchange hands, thereby eliminating any regulation at all with regard to who acquires the items in question?  On top of this, the Government is expected to "refund" small businesses for any surplus that may be incurred? 

 

The last time this was tried, they called it prohibition and business was booming.  

[TonyJoey]

So the market would flood with whatever inventory was left (still allowing access to the items), essentially creating brisk trading in the private sector or black market in which said items would continue to exchange hands, thereby eliminating any regulation at all with regard to who acquires the items in question?  On top of this, the Government is expected to "refund" small businesses for any surplus that may be incurred?  

 

The last time this was tried, they called it prohibition and business was booming.  

I would think flooding the market would only aid business and the economy. After two years, the gangs, cartels, and mobs will have them whether such a law is in place or not, while mass murderes who snap one day, on the other hand, won't be able to go to the store and buy them.

[mtnman]

Von Messa-The government would pick up the tab.

The government cannot pick up the tab.  It has no money.  The best it can do is tax people and redistribute the money.

The taxpayers would be the ones picking up the tab.

I'm not trying to cherry-pick that out of your post, but it's a misconception that the government will "pick up the tab" for anything.

[VonMessa]

I would think flooding the market would only aid business and the economy. After two years, the gangs, cartels, and mobs will have them whether such a law is in place or not, while mass murderes who snap one day, on the other hand, won't be able to go to the store and buy them.

Since when has making a thing illegal stopped anyone from procuring the illegal thing in question?

Gangs and the mob won't sell these illegal items in question?  Which motivation will have the greater effect?  The way their moral compass points, or because they don't like money?

Our most recent mass murderer had been working on his plan for months, by the way, as most of the mass murderers have, as opposed to "snapping one day".  They seemed to find the time to write journals, lists, schematics, stick-figure drawings and manifestos.  Seems to me like plenty of time to locate and purchase anything they could afford, provided to them by by a vendor whose only requirement for transacting business is that the purchaser is in possession of cold, hard cash.

Va. Tech

Columbine

Oklahoma City

1996 Olympic Games

Jack the Ripper (No gun, by the way)

Just to name a few...


Your gonna need this:

[TonyJoey]

Since when has making a thing illegal stopped anyone from procuring the illegal thing in question?
Gangs and the mob won't sell these illegal items in question?  Which motivation will have the greater effect?  The way their moral compass points, or because they don't like money?
Our most recent mass murderer had been working on his plan for months, by the way, as most of the mass murderers have, as opposed to "snapping one day".  They seemed to find the time to write journals, lists, schematics, stick-figure drawings and manifestos.  Seems to me like plenty of time to locate and purchase anything they could afford, provided to them by by a vendor whose only requirement for transacting business is that the purchaser is in possession of cold, hard cash.

You make good points, but I would argue that making it illegal would prevent psychopaths such as the killers in the events you mentioned from procuring such accessories. The events you listed involved weapons that were acquired legally. I still don't argee with the idea that people such as Holmes or the VT guy could locate a black market vendor. It's not like these people are set up on street corners. Those two in particular were college students who built up their arsenals primarily through online sales.

Edit: I meant the shootings involved legally acquired guns. I'm not so sure about the bomb components so maybe someone could say if they were actually made of ingredients that could be picked up at a grocery store.

[mtnman]

Edit: I meant the shootings involved legally acquired guns. I'm not so sure about the bomb components so maybe someone could say if they were actually made of ingredients that could be picked up at a grocery store.

Go back and read my post again.  When I mentioned that someone could pick up the components at the grocery store, I wasn't referring to making a bomb or to the components used in the bomb in CO.

[TonyJoey]

Go back and read my post again.  When I mentioned that someone could pick up the components at the grocery store, I wasn't referring to making a bomb or to the components used in the bomb in CO.

I honestly had no intention of attacking a previous post of yours so I apologize if it came off that way. I just wasn't sure about the legality of the bomb components used, so I wanted to differentiate the bombings from my statement that the weapons were acquired legally before someone provided ample evidence to the contrary.

[mtnman]

I honestly had no intention of attacking a previous post of yours so I apologize if it came off that way. I just wasn't sure about the legality of the bomb components used, so I wanted to differentiate the bombings from my statement that the weapons were acquired legally before someone provided ample evidence to the contrary.

No, I didn't take it as an attack.  I just meant to go back and read it again because I didn't feel like typing it out again.

The point I was trying to make is that if someone is bent on causing a big scene, they can do it with perfectly legal items available at very low cost to anyone who wants to go buy them.  All they need is knowledge.

I believe that a big part of the "big magazine" draw some of these nutcases have is due to the shock-value, "coolness", fame, or whatever.  They're trying to make a scene, and want to do it in a memorable way.  In a sense, making big magazines illegal would probably increase their desire to use them.

[guncrasher]

Not quite right, so let me enlighten you. We have one of the highest standards of living in the world couple that with a general high average income and very little crime compared to other countrys.

For some reason I always hear that stupid argument that Switzerland has such a low crime rate because of the amount of guns in the civilian population. This is just BS tbh. When you have a good life and the basics are taken care off there is very little motivation to steal and commit crime.

I personally have a military grade SIG 550/II assault rifle (Full Auto for those who want to know) at home. I am a soldier in the swiss armed forces and as such per law I have my service weapon at home. This comes from the old military doctrine to have the whole country ready and armed in less then 24 hours in the case of war. Nowadays this doctrine is rather silly as our neighbours Germany, Austria, France and Italy have been living in peace for the last 65 years.

You don't need a weapon to kill someone, if you are trained like me you can do that just with your hands.

Personally for me it comes down to living circumstances and the higher amounts of anti-depressants. I am almost certain that all recent shootings like this were because these wackos were on some severe meds who skew ones perception of reality. And since most of America is on some form of drugs these days there are certainly gonna be more incidents like this.

you notice when you bring out the truth about something everybody ignores it?


semp

[ink]

you notice when you bring out the truth about something everybody ignores it?


semp

I was gonna comment on his...

"You don't need a weapon to kill someone, if you are trained like me you can do that just with your hands."

you dont need to be "trained" to kill someone with your bare hands.....I have met many many killers that were not trained in the slightest...yet they killed someone.

I figured what the hell is the point.

[Shuffler]

Von Messa-The government would pick up the tab, after making much needed spending cuts in a number of other areas (Let's try not to open that can of worms too far so that the thread may live). Either that, or there could be a 1 year period during which businesses could still sell off their current inventories. After that the refund system would go into effect, but this time the tab would be much smaller.   

The government has no tab. You mean all Americans (the people)

[VonMessa]

You make good points, but I would argue that making it illegal would prevent psychopaths such as the killers in the events you mentioned from procuring such accessories. The events you listed involved weapons that were acquired legally. I still don't argee with the idea that people such as Holmes or the VT guy could locate a black market vendor. It's not like these people are set up on street corners. Those two in particular were college students who built up their arsenals primarily through online sales.

Edit: I meant the shootings involved legally acquired guns. I'm not so sure about the bomb components so maybe someone could say if they were actually made of ingredients that could be picked up at a grocery store.

It only takes knowledge and money.  Knowledge of where to get it and the money to buy it.

To anyone with a mediocre understanding of chemistry, there are plenty of legal, household items that can be purchased to make a bomb or device to put a big hurt on a large group of people.

As for these vendors "not being set up on street corners"?

I can go downtown right now, to any number of corners, pick up a handgun (probably with all identifying marks removed) with a full magazine for
< $100 without even leaving my car and be back here at my desk before you are finished your oatmeal and coffee.  This is not just Philly, either.  You will find this in any big city.

Money talks.

[Viperius]

I was gonna comment on his...

"You don't need a weapon to kill someone, if you are trained like me you can do that just with your hands."

you dont need to be "trained" to kill someone with your bare hands.....I have met many many killers that were not trained in the slightest...yet they killed someone.

I figured what the hell is the point.

Well yeah Ink, if your trained its just easier, knowing which areas are vulnerable in the human body. My point is that you don't need a gun if you really want to kill someone. You out of all people on this board probably understands this the best.

 

[Maverick]

I'm not ignoring history at all. Not once have I implied that a ban of standard-capacity magazines would eradicate them. Rather, I have countless times said that such a ban would remove the point of access that mass murders use to acquire such deadly accessories. The psychopaths that commit such atrosities are not in gangs or the mob. They are mentally insane people who use the tools available to them to commit mass murder. If such a ban were in place, who would James Holmes call to acquire a 100-round magazine for his M-16? He's not a member of a drug cartel or the Crips or a Neo-Nazi organization; to all non-psychologists, he was a college kid.

I understand that you really think that a ban would remove them from the possession of criminals. The sad fact is that history has shown very plainly that your preposition is not valid. Prohibition has never stopped an individual intent on using / possession of said object from obtaining it. Just like the incendiary devices the aurora hemorrhoid used to wire up his apartment or the propane bombs the columbine shooters tried to use to blow up the school. Even blacklisting books like the anarchists cookbook does not prevent an individual from accessing and using the material it contains to create a weapon or use it to kill / main innocents.