Author Topic: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%  (Read 11885 times)

Offline Slash27

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12795
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #165 on: July 27, 2012, 10:46:17 AM »
You bring up the point of the millions already out there. Most who own them are responsible gun owners with no intentions to shoot others except in the case of protecting his family. However, they are still for sale at gun shops, and that is where the mass murderers get them from when they decide to go on a rampage. These people don't already own guns, and instead purchase them when their mind is made up. If they didn't have this point of access, the magazines would not be nearly as prevalent.
Try educating yourself about the subject. Your fantasy solution of a ban will prevent nothing. Again, there are millions in circulation. Millions will be available after a ban just as they were during the last worthless ban that hey , guess what? Changed nothing.

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17360
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #166 on: July 27, 2012, 12:27:06 PM »

It only takes knowledge and money.  Knowledge of where to get it and the money to buy it.

To anyone with a mediocre understanding of chemistry, there are plenty of legal, household items that can be purchased to make a bomb or device to put a big hurt on a large group of people.

As for these vendors "not being set up on street corners"?

I can go downtown right now, to any number of corners, pick up a handgun (probably with all identifying marks removed) with a full magazine for
< $100 without even leaving my car and be back here at my desk before you are finished your oatmeal and coffee.  This is not just Philly, either.  You will find this in any big city.

Money talks.

dont go to los angeles and try to pick up a gun for $100 bucks at a corner.  most likely than not the guy will stick the gun in your face and take you $100 bucks.  and even if you get a gun for $100 dont expect to get a top of the line sniper rifle.  you will be lucky if you get a .22.  besides i can always just go to the store and pick up a used one for less than $100.


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #167 on: July 27, 2012, 12:35:11 PM »
Not quite right, so let me enlighten you. We have one of the highest standards of living in the world couple that with a general high average income and very little crime compared to other countrys.

For some reason I always hear that stupid argument that Switzerland has such a low crime rate because of the amount of guns in the civilian population. This is just BS tbh. When you have a good life and the basics are taken care off there is very little motivation to steal and commit crime.

I personally have a military grade SIG 550/II assault rifle (Full Auto for those who want to know) at home. I am a soldier in the swiss armed forces and as such per law I have my service weapon at home. This comes from the old military doctrine to have the whole country ready and armed in less then 24 hours in the case of war. Nowadays this doctrine is rather silly as our neighbours Germany, Austria, France and Italy have been living in peace for the last 65 years.

You don't need a weapon to kill someone, if you are trained like me you can do that just with your hands.

Personally for me it comes down to living circumstances and the higher amounts of anti-depressants. I am almost certain that all recent shootings like this were because these wackos were on some severe meds who skew ones perception of reality. And since most of America is on some form of drugs these days there are certainly gonna be more incidents like this.


There is much truth in what you say... Most of America, however, is not on drugs... America has other issues, and Europe is proving not to be immune to these either.

The problem here in the USA is a cultural problem. Politicians never search beyond their noses for the root cause. Our current popular culture promotes violence through film, television and video games, and the younger generations are more likely not to be horrified by it.

I have a H&K G3, a CETME 58 and AKM in my home. Add to that a pair of SKS rifles, Enfields and Mausers. In addition, I have two combat shotguns, various other rifles (I love my old Winchesters), pistols and seven black powder rifles and revolvers. Those folks I shoot with do not glorify violence. Hell, we're all veterans or cops and have had enough violence for a lifetime. We enjoy collecting and shooting as a hobby. Self defense is a byproduct of that. My children were taught gun safety and learned to shoot before their teenage years. We represent that substantial portion of Americans that are safe and responsible gun owners. Invariably, the nut jobs that commit horrific mass murders and criminal are not hobbyists and have little to no training or shooting skills. I wish the rest of the world would recognize that except for criminals and head cases, Americans are not dangerous with firearms.

Here's just a few.... TonyJoey, note the "high capacity magazines"..... ;)












My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Slash27

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 12795
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #168 on: July 27, 2012, 12:40:33 PM »
That's one great looking G3 WW.

Offline Sabre

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3112
      • Rich Owen
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #169 on: July 27, 2012, 12:40:52 PM »
Some pages back in this thread I asked for concrete suggestions of new laws that might have prevented this attack in Aurora (or similar ones), without unduly restricting our liberties. The only one so far put forth is to limit magazines to 15 rounds or less.  The arbitrariness of the proposed solution, the problems of implementing such a scheme, and it's likely unefficacy in preventing an intelligent but unbalanced individual from commiting mass murder leads me to discount this suggestion.  Any one else got any ideas?

Incidentally, I was watching the news and they had Sen Diane Fienstein (mother of the assault weapons ban) on, and her basic argument for banning all semi-automatic weapons with detachable magazines holding more than 10 rounds really boiled down to, "civilians just don't need these kinds of weapons."  Forget the fact that (contrary to her assertions) the AWB had no affect on number of deaths from guns).  The bigger problem is, anytime the government tells you what you can and can't have, it represents a loss of liberty, in which are sown the seeds of tyranny.  And where does it stop?  Do I need an F350, dually pickup truck? I'm not a contractor, and I don't have a fifth-wheel trailer.  Freedom means I don't need a reason to have one, other than, "Because they're cool!"  Yet, there are those that argue that to save the planet, these vehicles should be restricted to those with a "legitimate need" (as determined by un-elected beaurocrats).  Today it's semi-automatic weapons; what will it be tomorrow?

Case in point: Once upon a time, and not all that long ago, fully automatic weapons (i.e. real assault weapons) were legal to own without any kind of special license.  Similar arguments to those being made today were made back then, resulting in a general ban on private ownership of such.  It didn't end, or even lesson gun violence.  We gave up a bit of our liberty to purchase safety, and have less of both today.  Now, let's say insanity prevails and the AWB is reinstated.  As history has already demonstrated back in the '90s, this too will be ineffective.  Then, 10 or 15 years down the road someone packing a winchester repeater and a brace of six-guns (or maybe 8 semi-auto pistols strapped all over their body, all with legal 15-round mags) walks into a shopping mall on Black Friday and slews 20 folks.  The hew and cry would begin anew and soon enough the only legal guns will be blackpowder rifles and single-shot blackpowder pistols...and on and on until all freedom is gone and we wake up at last in Orwell's 1984.  So, before we trade yet another piece of our liberty, I'd like something more than, "it might" or "it could", in regards to effectiveness.  No, guns don't automatically equal freedom, but the right to have them does!
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #170 on: July 27, 2012, 01:02:08 PM »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8578
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #171 on: July 27, 2012, 01:07:58 PM »
I want to go shooting with Widewing. I'd like to go shooting with Melvin too, but I'm afraid there might be an 'accident' brought about by suppressed rage over my flying activities in the DA  :old:

I think Sabre, as an external observer, that a change can only be made by altering social aspects of your culture and not by moderating equipment. Ironically I expect I could get shot for suggesting such in certain circles.

"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #172 on: July 27, 2012, 01:26:01 PM »
I want to go shooting with Widewing. I'd like to go shooting with Melvin too, but I'm afraid there might be an 'accident' brought about by suppressed rage over my flying activities in the DA  :old:

I think Sabre, as an external observer, that a change can only be made by altering social aspects of your culture and not by moderating equipment. Ironically I expect I could get shot for suggesting such in certain circles.



Any time you visit NYC or long Island, let me know. You are always welcome...

Another great poster...


My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8578
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #173 on: July 27, 2012, 01:32:45 PM »
Any time you visit NYC or long Island, let me know. You are always welcome...

Thank you sir, very kind offer  :salute


Another great poster...

(Image removed from quote.)


 :rofl :rofl :aok

"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #174 on: July 27, 2012, 01:43:44 PM »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Sabre

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3112
      • Rich Owen
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #175 on: July 27, 2012, 02:22:08 PM »
A knee-jerk reaction from Congress...as expected.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/240657-cybersecurity-bill-includes-gun-control-measure

Quote
Democratic senators offer gun control amendment for cybersecurity bill
By Ramsey Cox - 07/26/12 07:29 PM ET
  
Tweet
Democratic senators have offered an amendment to the cybersecurity bill that would limit the purchase of high capacity gun magazines for some consumers.

Shortly after the Cybersecurity Act gained Senate approval to proceed to filing proposed amendments and a vote next week, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), a sponsor of the gun control amendment, came to the floor to defend the idea of implementing some “reasonable” gun control measures.

The amendment was sponsored by Democratic Sens. Frank Lautenberg (N.J.), Barbara Boxer (Calif.), Jack Reed (R.I.), Bob Menendez (N.J.), Kirsten Gillibrand (N.Y.), Schumer and Dianne Feinstein (Calif.). S.A. 2575 would make it illegal to transfer or possess large capacity feeding devices such as gun magazines, belts, feed stripes and drums of more than 10 rounds of ammunition with the exception of .22 caliber rim fire ammunition.

The amendment is identical to a separate bill sponsored by Lautenberg. Feinstein was the sponsor of the assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004.

Note that this would make the standard mags for most 9mm and 10mm semi-auto handguns illegal, as well as many others. Notice their definition of "large capacity": 11+ rounds.  I think it would be interesting to see if this has been effective in reducing violent crime (or even JUST gun deaths) in California, where such a measure has been in place for some time now.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 02:24:35 PM by Sabre »
Sabre
"The urge to save humanity almost always masks a desire to rule it."

Offline Maverick

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13919
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #176 on: July 27, 2012, 02:24:26 PM »
Widewing, I love the prayer post you did. Where did you find that? Pity you are in the NYC area. We just don't travel to that area of the country. Way to close to bloomberg and assorted idiots.
DEFINITION OF A VETERAN
A Veteran - whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a check made payable to "The United States of America", for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Author Unknown

Offline Widewing

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8800
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #177 on: July 27, 2012, 03:17:24 PM »
Widewing, I love the prayer post you did. Where did you find that? Pity you are in the NYC area. We just don't travel to that area of the country. Way to close to bloomberg and assorted idiots.

A buddy posted it to his Facebook page...

I live way out on Long Island, but have to pass through the Kingdom of Bloomberg to get off the island, unless I take a ferry to Connecticut...
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline TonyJoey

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1953
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #178 on: July 27, 2012, 03:37:26 PM »
Try educating yourself about the subject. Your fantasy solution of a ban will prevent nothing. Again, there are millions in circulation. Millions will be available after a ban just as they were during the last worthless ban that hey , guess what? Changed nothing.
I'm not ignoring history at all. Not once have I implied that a ban of standard-capacity magazines would eradicate them. Rather, I have countless times said that such a ban would remove the point of access that mass murders use to acquire such deadly accessories. The psychopaths that commit such atrosities are not in gangs or the mob. They are mentally insane people who use the tools available to them to commit mass murder. If such a ban were in place, who would James Holmes call to acquire a 100-round magazine for his M-16? He's not a member of a drug cartel or the Crips or a Neo-Nazi organization; to all non-psychologists, he was a college kid.

Mav, I just saw your last post repsponding to the above. Again, I didn't say it would keep them out of the hands of criminals. Gangs, mobs, etc. would still have them. You're right, no one is arguing that. I'm arguing that psychopaths wouldn't.

Serious question- Were the components that made up the bombs in such events acquired legally?

Offline Melvin

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2797
Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #179 on: July 27, 2012, 04:28:54 PM »
I'd like to go shooting with Melvin too, but I'm afraid there might be an 'accident' brought about by suppressed rage over my flying activities in the DA  :old:




Oh bollocks.  :lol


You know you're always welcome to come kill some inanimate objects with me.
See Rule #4