Author Topic: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%  (Read 12038 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #210 on: July 29, 2012, 01:37:24 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Aaah don't worry about it Semp, you learn more from your failures anyway, we still love you.
"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline 4Prop

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #211 on: July 29, 2012, 04:24:13 AM »
An improvement to the mental health system might prevent these rampages before they happen, while a standard-capacity magazine ban would lessen the carnage when they do. Now we're getting somewhere.  :)

I can reload a M4 in 2 seconds. so say only had a 10 round magazine. 100 rounds reloaded in 10 seconds. maybe if the theater allowed people to carry defence tools into the theater and someone had 1, this wouldn't have nearly been as bad. where he messed up was using the caliber he did, wether it was an AK or AR. had he used a .300 or .308 probably 90% of the victims would have been dead.
but the story will continue..a few people get killed by someone using a gun in 1 incident and all the gun control freaks will emerge from their cave.

Offline MiloMorai

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #212 on: July 29, 2012, 06:04:05 AM »
Quote
where he messed up was using the caliber he did, wether it was an AK or AR. had he used a .300 or .308

The AK-47 is 7.62mm while the AR is 5.56mm.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #213 on: July 29, 2012, 06:57:32 AM »
Aaah don't worry about it Semp, you learn more from your failures anyway, we still love you.

dont need your love bro, i already know enough morons in my life, no need for you to want to be on my list too :).


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline nrshida

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #214 on: July 29, 2012, 07:13:33 AM »
dont need your love bro, i already know enough morons in my life, no need for you to want to be on my list too :).


 :rofl  :aok
"If man were meant to fly, he'd have been given an MS Sidewinder"

Offline Rich46yo

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #215 on: July 29, 2012, 09:26:16 AM »
What I dont understand about gun control advocates is who they expect to protect them if they themselves dont?

Usually the first thing out of their mouths are "I couldnt believe it was happening". That is if they can talk at all.

Govt. or the Police CAN'T protect you. Thats from the Horses mouth. We have set up a system thats created a huge criminal underclass, along with a huge undocumented alien presence. The courts cant deal with it. The Police have been obstructed more and more. So who is going to protect you?

The UN ?  :huh
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Offline Bino

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #216 on: July 29, 2012, 09:43:17 AM »
...
We have set up a system thats created a huge criminal underclass
...

And how do you suppose *that* happened?    :rolleyes:


"The plural of 'anecdote' is not 'data'." - Randy Pausch

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Offline jimson

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #217 on: July 29, 2012, 10:07:48 AM »
An improvement to the mental health system might prevent these rampages before they happen, while a standard-capacity magazine ban would lessen the carnage when they do. Now we're getting somewhere.  :)

No we're not getting anywhere because you are still focused on banning some accessory that "might" lesson the carnage, provided they don't instead carry more smaller capacity guns instead, don't have a friend in the shooting sports from whom the can steal a pre-ban magazine, don't try to find them on the black market, don't spent weeks practicing reloading smaller magazines quickly, don't learn how to make explosives, don't block the exits of an occupied building and set it afire etc.

Offline Melvin

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #218 on: July 29, 2012, 10:10:06 AM »
i already know enough morons in my life



 :rofl   Awesome, I totally believe you.
See Rule #4

Offline TonyJoey

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #219 on: July 29, 2012, 10:22:38 AM »
4Prop, please refer to some of my earlier posts in this thread where I dealt with the notion that an inexperienced shooter can reload as fast as an experienced gun owner. The basic point is that more reloads means less bullets fired and more time vulnerable to be subdued. Those factors are only amplified when dealing with an inexperienced shooter. At the end of the day, this means less people shot and less lives ruined. Furthermore, I think that a second shooter would not have helped anything, expecially in a dark theater against someone wielding heavy firepower and with a bullet proof vest. But I digress. 

Jimson, you continue to argue that because they will find other ways, that such a ban should not be put in place.  Again, why should guns be illegal on planes? Yes, terrorists could make IEDs or bombs or drive a bus off a cliff, so what's the point in stopping them from bringing guns on planes? The fact that people will find other ways to wreak havoc is no reason not to impose a law to limit one common avenue of attack.

Offline Widewing

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #220 on: July 29, 2012, 10:56:22 AM »
I've used the case of full-auto guns to support my case that the psychopaths that go on these rampages don't acquire their weapons illegally. No doubt full-auto guns would aid their deadly intentions, but they don't have or use them. True criminals still use them, and Slash pointed out the example of the North Hollywood bank robbery/shootout, but I believe there is a distinction and explained it more in-depth a couple posts back.

What makes an AK semi-auto or full auto is the design of the hammer latch and sear. With a Dremel multi-tool (under $50) using the bits that come with it, I could modify my AK to full auto only in less than 5 minutes at my kitchen table... Easy to do. I don't do it because it is illegal and I obey the law... Kinda like the Shelby I owned in the mid 80s... It was capable of speeds well in excess of 150 mph. I didn't drive it that fast on the public streets because it was illegal to do so...
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Offline Widewing

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #221 on: July 29, 2012, 11:15:52 AM »
4Prop, please refer to some of my earlier posts in this thread where I dealt with the notion that an inexperienced shooter can reload as fast as an experienced gun owner. The basic point is that more reloads means less bullets fired and more time vulnerable to be subdued. Those factors are only amplified when dealing with an inexperienced shooter. At the end of the day, this means less people shot and less lives ruined. Furthermore, I think that a second shooter would not have helped anything, expecially in a dark theater against someone wielding heavy firepower and with a bullet proof vest. But I digress.  

Jimson, you continue to argue that because they will find other ways, that such a ban should not be put in place.  Again, why should guns be illegal on planes? Yes, terrorists could make IEDs or bombs or drive a bus off a cliff, so what's the point in stopping them from bringing guns on planes? The fact that people will find other ways to wreak havoc is no reason not to impose a law to limit one common avenue of attack.

When you have some time, do some reading on the Washington Naval Treaty. It was designed to prevent nations who had previously been belligerent, from acquiring a large, very powerful naval force. It placed restrictions on the size on battleships and cruisers as well as the number allowed for a given nation. It failed when some nations who signed the treaty, then ignored it. Germany, Italy and Japan were the main violators. Meanwhile, the west adhered to it and found themselves at a disadvantage when war came. Compare the treaty battleships of the King George V class to non-treaty Tirpitz.... Slower, less well armed and armored...

When you restrict good guys, you give a greater advantage to the bad guys. Always, always. Politicians are all about superficial fixes. It's quick and easy and they can point to it and say, "hey, I did something". The reality is that they did nothing at all, but appease the uproar. Like a bandaid on road rash, it does nothing at all and is painful to remove later.

Whether you understand this or not, the only true security you have is that which you provide for yourself. The Police have no legal obligation to protect you. None whatsoever. If they happen to see someone assault you, then they can intervene. Otherwise, you are on your own. Even an order of protection is nothing more than writing on paper. If the bad guy choses to ignore it, they will arrest him later. Maybe too late for you. It seems to me that the police are, due never ending restrictions, becoming more of crime statistics collection organization... You must get used to the fact that you are responsible for your own safety...
My regards,

Widewing

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Offline jimson

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #222 on: July 29, 2012, 11:26:12 AM »
4Prop, please refer to some of my earlier posts in this thread where I dealt with the notion that an inexperienced shooter can reload as fast as an experienced gun owner. The basic point is that more reloads means less bullets fired and more time vulnerable to be subdued. Those factors are only amplified when dealing with an inexperienced shooter. At the end of the day, this means less people shot and less lives ruined. Furthermore, I think that a second shooter would not have helped anything, expecially in a dark theater against someone wielding heavy firepower and with a bullet proof vest. But I digress.  

Jimson, you continue to argue that because they will find other ways, that such a ban should not be put in place.  Again, why should guns be illegal on planes? Yes, terrorists could make IEDs or bombs or drive a bus off a cliff, so what's the point in stopping them from bringing guns on planes? The fact that people will find other ways to wreak havoc is no reason not to impose a law to limit one common avenue of attack.

Yes I continue to argue that such a ban should not be put in place. I don't believe it will have the effect you desire and will needlessly affect collectors and those who use these magazines for recreational shooting and sport shooting competitions, if not the limited circumstances when one may have to defend themselves against multiple attackers.

I want to see the effort directed to things that I think would have a greater effect.

The airplane comparison is invalid. Any discharge of a firearm on on airplane could pierce the skin and result in catastrophic cabin depressurization. There is no chance that good guys on an airplane will be vulnerable to bad guys with guns. This kind of security cannot be enabled everywhere at large.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 11:32:24 AM by jimson »

Offline TonyJoey

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #223 on: July 29, 2012, 11:43:30 AM »
WW- A 15-round magazine limit does not limit the good guys in terms of hunting, self-defense, or collecting. I have tried to make a distinction between true criminals, such as those who rob and steal and kill to accomplish the aforementioned, and psychopaths who write manifestos, draw stick figures, or write letters about the damage they intend to do. The former have black market access and have the knowledge needed to acquire illegal weapons or illegally modify their weapons, and would be relatively unaffected by such law. Case in point, the North Hollywood shootout, where true criminals, intent on robbing a bank using a heavily-armed and armored tactic they had previously used, did exactly what you said you were capable of in about five minutes to convert their weapons to full-auto. On the other hand, psychopathic mass-murderers don't have such access and use the available weapons and accessories. The mass shootings that have been brought up all support this thesis. Tucson, Columbine, VT, and Aurora all involved weapons that could be converted to full-auto and people with the murderous intentions to want to make such a modification, but were not. Columbine involved sawed-off shotguns but even I could figure out how to cut off the end of a barrel.

The airplane comparison is not valid, any discharge of a firearm on on airplane could pierce the skin and result in catastrophic cabin depressurization. There is no chance that good guys on an airplane will be vulnerable to bad guys with guns. This kind of security cannot be enabled everywhere at large.

What exactly do you mean by this? Jimson, I aree that you may have something with your ideas on improving the mental health system, but some concrete suggestions would aid the discussion. I'm also glad we agree that the fact that people will find other ways to wreak havoc doesn't constitute a reason not to limit a common avenue of attack and we can proceed to debate the effectiveness of such a law.  ;)
« Last Edit: July 29, 2012, 11:47:04 AM by TonyJoey »

Offline Widewing

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Re: Colorado Gun Demand Jumps 41%
« Reply #224 on: July 29, 2012, 11:56:54 AM »

The airplane comparison is invalid. Any discharge of a firearm on on airplane could pierce the skin and result in catastrophic cabin depressurization. There is no chance that good guys on an airplane will be vulnerable to bad guys with guns. This kind of security cannot be enabled everywhere at large.

A little 9mm hole in the cabin fuselage will do nothing more than whistle.... Every aircraft has pressure leaks and lots more bleed air capacity than needed to maintain pressure, even with multiple small holes in the cabin. Normal total leakage from a typical well maintained Boeing 737 is about 6 square inches... A few small holes in the fuselage would not be catastrophic.

We had the fuselage of our C-118 punctured by a forklift in Panama. We flew it back to GTMO with a sheet metal patch duct-taped in place (on the inside of the cabin). We had no problem maintaining cabin pressure at 15,000 feet. It didn't even whistle..   ;)
My regards,

Widewing

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