Last time USA defeated the queens navy?

[madhogg]

 

[Reaper90]

I just read all 8 pages of this mess....

oh.
dear.
lord.

 

[madhogg]

I just read all 8 pages of this mess....

oh.
dear.
lord.

 

[branch37]

Rob,  You do know that the battle of New Orleans took place after peace had already been negotiated.  Due to the time it took for news to travel across the Atlantic back then, the battle was still fought.

[Zodiac]

In a nutshell.

US goes to war against Canada and England.

US loses war against Canada and England.  However because the great Irish descendant and future president Andrew Jackson enlisted the help of local Pirates in New Orleans, he was able win total victory in that battle.  Shortly after that, the guys we sent to negotiate peace returned so the headlines read like this.\

Jackson Defeats the English.
The War is Over.

This is why most americans don't realize we lost that war and Canada and England won.

Battle of New Orleans actually occurred two weeks after the war "ended".

[Gman]

Theodore Roosevelt wrote the definitive book on the subject of the Naval War of 1812

I just finished this book, and found it to be an excellent source of accurate information on the war, particularly the Naval aspects of 1812.

The USA's first 6 Frigates were a timely counter to the British ruled oceans.  The British were THE class of the world at this point, and had been for quite some time.  Their 1000 ship navy with dozens of Ships of the Line and hundreds of cruisers and frigates couldn't be beaten, and even their smaller ships had a reputation for winning against short odds due to sheer "tenacity".  The frigates that America used I think are the historical beginning of American military superiority.  The ideas behind their design and employment can be seen in many descendants, and not just naval vessels.  The "up gunning" of the Frigates to a much more powerful warships while retaining the speed and maneuverability of smaller ships allowed them to go toe to toe with larger ships, and completely dominate equal sized enemy Frigates, Sloops, Brigs, and other similarly sized warships.  Anyone who takes the time to read through this book will get a sense of what I'm talking about - I couldn't help but think about other American innovations and inventions in the arts of war while reading about the first warships she put to sea.  

During the war of 1812 the US ships for the most part, and in almost every case with the Frigates came out on the winning end of the stick, and decisively so versus many highly regarded "Crack" British warships.  In fact, as you can read in the book, many British military authors of the time had to become apologists for what they thought was "poor" performance from the usually dominant Royal Navy.  In Roosevelt's opinion this wasn't the case, the British fought well, but they were simply caught at one of those times in history where the worm was turning, and the American ships used new ideas in terms of ship construction, armament, gunnery, and seamanship to be victorious.

Again, anyone in this thread who isn't here just to troll and be retarded and is actually interested in military history and fact should read this book and get a great idea of how things went at sea during the war of 1812.

I just ordered "Six Frigates", hopefully it'll be as informative as Roosevelt's book.

+1 for Widewing, as usual, a poster on this bbs who contributes well thought out posts and suggestions.  

[madhogg]

Gman you get an A++ !

[madhogg]

Thanks for the info gman , will read book

[branch37]

Kind of off topic here but I read a book a few months back "A War of Frontier and Empire The Philippine-American War, 1899-1902"  In the beginning it talks about the U.S. Navy fighting the Spanish navy in Manilla.  After a stop in Hong Kong, some British sailors there were very surprised to hear where they were going, and gave the Americans no chance against the Spanish.  As it turns out, it ended up being a very one-sided victory for the Americans, and ended with a siege of Manilla with fire support from the U.S. ships sitting in the bay.  A very good read overall.

[macleod01]

Gman,

I haven't read that book, but sounds like it would be interesting. I don't like people who say that the British behaved poorly at sea during the War of 1812. As yuo mentioned, the US had some great innovations concerning Ship building at this time, allowing them to create fast, sleak, yeat powerful ships. The British were the first navy to feel this wrath.
However on Land it was a differant story. The British army still dominated the field, same as it had been doing for several years, mainly since the Wars of Independance. Rifles and Skirmishers were now an integral part of the battalion giving them a massive advantage. This ment that most engagements, they British walked off the field as the victor.
Combine the US domination at sea with their loses on land and you start to see why it was a stalemate.


Which, I believe is what we are all arguing about lol. Amazing. Almost every history book written has said that it was a stalemate, and yet so many words are wasted arguing over it. Reminds me of people saying Waterloo was a British victory 

[GScholz]

To say that the Americans dominated at sea is somewhat misleading. True, they won a significant number of battles and skirmishes, but only because they chose their battles well (as they should). The Royal Navy still blockaded the entire U.S. coast from late-1813 onward to the extent that most American merchant ships and naval vessels were confined to port. American exports decreased from $130 million in 1807 to $7 million in 1814. Of the eight American frigates deployed in the war, the largest ships available to the fledgling U.S. Navy, Chesapeake, Essex, and President was captured by the Royal Navy while United States and Macedonian ended the war blockaded and hulked in New London, Connecticut.

When considering the War of 1812, many Americans focus on the U.S. Navy's stirring victories over the Royal Navy in frigate duels. However, the British emerged from the conflict with total command of the oceans and broad experience in blockade and amphibious operations.

[macleod01]

To say that the Americans dominated at sea is somewhat misleading. True, they won a significant number of battles and skirmishes, but only because they chose their battles well (as they should). The Royal Navy still blockaded the entire U.S. coast from late-1813 onward to the extent that most American merchant ships and naval vessels were confined to port. American exports decreased from $130 million in 1807 to $7 million in 1814. Of the eight American frigates deployed in the war, the largest ships available to the fledgling U.S. Navy, Chesapeake, Essex, and President was captured by the Royal Navy while United States and Macedonian ended the war blockaded and hulked in New London, Connecticut.

When considering the War of 1812, many Americans focus on the U.S. Navy's stirring victories over the Royal Navy in frigate duels. However, the British emerged from the conflict with total command of the oceans and broad experience in blockade and amphibious operations.

Oh certainly. but considering the frigate battles where what the majority of the naval conflict consisted of, then we can say that the US dominated the sea. The fact that the US lost the major sea battle shows that the frigates were the main source of their force, and that the RN was still the main force in large scale engagements. This is also shown by the fact that the US failed to lift the blockades on their ports throughout the war. The fact remains also that the White House was burnt down by a amphibious assualt, which would have been impossible had the US been the main force with large Ships of The Line.

The RN was still the main force, but for the majority of the war, the US frigates dominated the RN equivilants.

[GScholz]

Actually the majority of the naval conflict consisted of merchant raiding and blockade. The handful battles exclusively between warships, while featuring prominent in the news of the time, was pretty insignificant for the war effort of either side.

The United States had maritime rather than naval strength; the American merchant marine had grown rapidly in size and importance after the Revolutionary War, and the U.S. Navy's greatest success was the capture or sinking of 1,175 British merchant ships by American naval and privateer ships. However, this aspect of the war was hardly one-sided; The blockade of American ports was crippling, and the Royal Navy and privateers recaptured 373 merchants and sunk or captured another 1,593 American merchantmen.

[macleod01]

Ahh my apologies. I was wrong. As I believe i mentioned before, the war of 1812 is not my main subject to study, so what I know I have picked up around campfires and by what is referanced to in the Peninsuar War books that I read.

Always interesting to be corrected 

[GScholz]

It's easier to look at the naval war of 1812-1815 as a merchant war with a handful of battles between merchant-raiding warships when they simply happened upon each other or tried to run the British blockade. As an example of how separate the naval war was from the direct armed conflict on land (with the exceptions of amphibious operations) one of the more famous actions, the capture of HMS Java by USS Constitution, happened off the coast of Brazil.