Author Topic: Organisation – a limited concept?  (Read 5674 times)

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17323
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 07:12:10 PM »



Or is there actually a body of people out there which IS using the opportunities to fight for „their country“ with cold, analytical efficiency above and beyond the smash&grab?


on one hand you have a bunch of experienced players who arent loyal to any country and justify it by making fun of the chess pice loyals.  on the other you want people to fight for "their country".

on the third hand,  you have a bunch of guys who couldnt care less who wins or doesnt win the war.  we just here to have fun. and for some it means attack the strats, for others defend the strats and for others horde and for others furballing and for others....

enjoy the game, we arent here to "win a war" or to "defend a country".  we are here to have fun, so have fun your way and if it isnt fun then find another game to play.

really gets old reading about threads from old timers who whine about how the game "should be played" or "isnt played".


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23872
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2012, 07:22:42 PM »
really gets old reading about threads from old timers who whine about how the game "should be played" or "isnt played".


Good thing that this isn't one of those threads :)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Flayed

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 286
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2012, 07:47:53 PM »
 Just so you know I totally agree with you oh great and wise snail.  :aok
Bringing peace to the MA's 1 explody thingy at a time! :)

  Pork em Pork em all!!!
  And the best quote EVERRRRR!!!
"All I can say is wow,some people are really stuck on stupid."
HiTech

Offline gldnbb

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 289
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2012, 07:48:26 PM »

We have the new strats for a month now. And they work, having a big impact on downtimes of field objects and, most importantly, towns. Having enemy towns down for 2h and more instead of only 30 minutes offers a huge advantage especially in the light of the new ability to resupply them.
Similar with ords, maybe THE single key asset in both defense as well as on the offense.
......

But is it being utilized? In my experience, not really.
Yes, we see a much increased number of strat runs, but that's almost always by enterprising lone buff pilots. There is the occasional buff mission, but usually only for 'fun' (no, that's not a bad thing, but that isn't my point) and often quite ineffective. In both cases, there is a lack of follow up porking runs.
In that context it strikes me that the often called for „organisation“ is almost exclusively used in strictly tactical, base grabbing context. „Let's organise“  simply means: Get as many players as possible and roll some bases. There are some large squads which do only have that as a purpose.
............................. ......................


And this is the point that makes me wonder: A relatively small number of players could now really make an impact. Coordinated strikes at key strategic targets combined with some porkage could quite effectively strangle the enemies ability to wage war on a specific front. With comparatively little effort. But it seems to me that it's not even being taken into consideration by the big generals of  AH land.




 :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok :aok  



Agreed, with the newly 30 rebuild time limits in place,  it  perplexes the senses to  still try so hard to rush and take a base with even the bare participation of pilots.    However,  few invest in the time for an opening beginning  on the strats   so that they can enjoy the rest of the evening taking bases in a more relaxed manner.     :bhead

Yes as others said that players are mostly into the game for a 'quick fix',   but we all know that really applies toward the furballers these days.    Base taking these days is anything but a  'quick fix',   but an easily defeated effort  with 30 minute rebuild times   unless you're flying on the bish or knit side with 20+ players attacking a single base  (I.E.  2 dar bars)  and overwhelming the target  taking  a base about once every 40 minutes non-stop.

For those that are not in an overwhelming attack #s   24hrs / 7 days a week (I.E. Rooks),    the Strat system is a perfect balancer.   It just boggles the mind that people rather have a mission with low#s,  get frustrated when the mission fails,  and yet don't see the light of trying for a strat mission first.    :bhead  


**** Lastly,  those who whine to help resupply strats,  also apply to those complaining about 'Please help defend'!   Yet you rarely see those types of mentalities  help   attack  bases.    The easy road vs.  the more patient road.   People enjoy a quick furball to the tower,  and that's fine.   but those shouldn't get the privilege of whining on country to come help resupply or defense,  when they don't participate in the occasional offensive attacks,  which is far more productive  (attacking incoming bombers,  attacking bases,  attacking ords, etc).   Oh and there's a bonus too,   during any attack on a base you will  START A FURBALL  at the same time.  It's just on your terms and not on their's    :bhead   



« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 07:54:07 PM by gldnbb »
To fly or not to fly, that is the question
-The Golden BB-


Offline Lusche

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23872
      • Last.FM Profile
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2012, 07:50:57 PM »
Just so you know I totally agree with you oh great and wise snail.  :aok

That's nice... but with what? I'm basically just asking questions, so "I agree" leaves me kinda puzzled  :headscratch:  ;)
Steam: DrKalv
E:D Snailman

Offline Pongo1

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #20 on: September 26, 2012, 08:16:44 PM »
What Fugitive said...

What I think is needed is some new rules, or "carrots" to entice the players away from horde antics and more toward strategic, and tactical play.

here are some "maybes"

1. for every hour that one of the strats are down, every player on that team gets 10 perks. So if the knights keep the bish ammo under 100% for an hour all Knights get 10 perks. If they keep ammo AND fuel down for the same hour, 20 perks for all kinghts and on.

2. win the war means you need the base percentage as well as the dar dead. This will set up a mass mission to hit the HQ for the win, People should defend that.

3. less guys in a dar circle, less percentage needed for  a white flag, more in the dar, the higher the percentage.

HTC could "guide" play away from hordes and more toward organized attacks if they wanted to. By creating a different way to win, they would create more places to battle. Now, can the xbox group handle "battles" or would they all run away to play WOW?  

End quote

This would be a great idea.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 08:22:19 PM by Pongo1 »

Offline pipz

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4899
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #21 on: September 26, 2012, 08:16:50 PM »
Maybe it needs a bit more time to catch on and for players to figure it out? Just the other day I ran into some sporting chaps on the way to visit the Knight strats. I believe Dadkev and DaveyJ were some of the guys involved with this social call. Please feel free to stop by anytime fellaz!  :D  :aok

Not the best screen shot but it gives ya an idea. Everyone involved in this raid on both sides seemed to have had a lot of fun. <S>
Silence tells me secretly everything.
                                                                     
Montreal! Free the Pitt Bulls!!!!!

Offline zack1234

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 13182
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 12:43:01 AM »
I agree with everying people say in this thread, then again I dont :old:
There are no pies stored in this plane overnight

                          
The GFC
Pipz lived in the Wilderness near Ontario

Offline LCADolby

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7217
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 02:12:34 AM »
A proper Strategy game looks like this;



And AcesHigh looks nothing like that  :neener: How can anyone organise properly without large arrows!?
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 02:16:37 AM by LCADolby »
JG5 "Eismeer"
YouTube-20Dolby10
Twitch - Glendinho

Offline Hap

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3908
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2012, 07:05:29 AM »
So why is organization understood in only such a limited way?  Habit?  Strat system still too complex? Not enough "WTFG A95!“?

I fancy habit[/b] and even more the "this is how it is done" mindset that allows our AH habits to continue and flourish is the best answer.  

Also, there's the example of players whom others admire.  In the latter case, I'm thinking of those who care nothing of organization in the sense you're speaking, Lusche.  Their joy requires no planning but does rely upon having enough followers to make their 30 mins to 2 hours playing AH fun.

So, "desire" and "habit" might be the best answers.  As in, "I don't have fun looking and or playing AH when it requires organization," and "I'm not sure what you mean by organization?  How else would be organize than in the manner we are accustomed?"

I'm pondering this as I'm writing, so bear with me.  I have noticed a decrease in strat resupply since the reward has been reduced to 3.75 perks.  So, it's fair to say when a reward is high enough, folks will pursue an activity to earn the reward.  But that's really beside your question.

I feel I'm at a disadvantage these days because I fly very little during prime time.  Most of my flying is during the morning when the numbers of players in-flight are low on all sides.  So, I'm not privy to country channel chattering as to what the best move would be and the best method to adopt.

What little I have witnessed during prime-time over the last month resembles an organization method that possesses a very high degree of "WTG A95's" while requiring the least amount of time possible.

Over the past month, I've been pleased to see that folks are hitting the strats.  Frequently, each country has sustained a fair amount to much damage to their factories.  But I've not seen things like this on country channel: "Ok -- in 30 mins the Knight anti-aircraft battery factory will be significantly damaged.  We'll need a squad or two to follow up on that work by tacking out ack at A33 and V45.  Following their missions, let's get plans and players in the works to cap and capture those bases."  I've not seen that sort of chatter nor heard it on range.  Now it might be going on but not when I play or it maybe taking place on squad voxs exclusively.

What I have seen is something like this: "Come on gents.  General XYZ has a mission up.  Needs 20 Lancasters.  We're going to really put it to the Rooks."  Or, you could remove the Lancs and put jabos in their place.  

Actually, it all might boil down to the most bang for the least amount of time.  During the 7 to 9 mins to target range channel is aflame with bravado and all the silly albeit fun stuff that happens in AH.  For the 15 mins of time that General XYZ asks, the players know what's coming and they have fun.  Is it so that from more than 1/3rd of AH players (thinking bell curve), the answer would be, "Hey, what's not to like!"  I don't think that "habit" or "desire" covers that example.  It might be "economy."  Get much for little?

Lastly, I have posted some buff runs to strats a few times over the past month.  I lose about 2/3rds on the way to a target that asks 25K from us for a decent chance at multiple passes with 3 to 4 bomber formations.  I sense those who drop out earliest do so because they see it's not a 15 min hullabaloo from wheels up to wheels down.  

So, my answer to your question is "economy" limits our understanding of organization.




« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 07:07:47 AM by Hap »

Offline Hap

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3908
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 07:06:38 AM »
Now this is coincidental.  Just logged on about 6AM my time.  A very healthy strat raid is over our strats.  So up I go from a 4.2k base.  Climb away; turn; climb; lvl at 25k.  Will let you know what I see.  

I didn't ask on country for intel.  I've become soured on wrong info.  So, I'm using up my 1st 30 mins today.

Well never did see them.  If cntry channel is to be believed, they were intrepid Rooks at 4 to 9K.  Boy did I guess wrong.

Well that 6 sector run on their part makes sense.  The alt, baffles me.

They put a dent in Bish strats so <S>.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 07:48:32 AM by Hap »

Offline Paladin3

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 331
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2012, 11:38:19 AM »
As has been stated before I see a few issues at play here. One is that allot of folks just do not have the time to really dedicate to a good strat run. Especially when you have such early warning of an impending attack. I have seen them and by the time they get there either half the defenders have upped 163s just for the joyride (I do that occasionally because it is such a freaky aircraft) and the rest of upped quick climbing buff hunters and are well at altitude by the time they arrive. It just makes it a heck of a gunfight with little payoff personally and for the country as well unless you actually manage to get a lot of ord on target (which I do not see often).

Offline Daddkev

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1727
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2012, 11:47:10 AM »
 :aok :aok :aok Man, I have only been Bish for 2 weeks....and having loads of fun!  :cheers: :cheers: I love Strat runs, Big ol Bomber formations! It is awesome.  :banana: :banana: But most of all..........its a game!  :rofl :rofl :rofl
God Bless America
Go tell Momm, im flying! and make me a sandwich !
EvilKev

2012 68KO Cup 1st Place finisher

Offline DaveJ

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 12:02:49 PM »
Maybe it needs a bit more time to catch on and for players to figure it out? Just the other day I ran into some sporting chaps on the way to visit the Knight strats. I believe Dadkev and DaveyJ were some of the guys involved with this social call. Please feel free to stop by anytime fellaz!  :D  :aok

Not the best screen shot but it gives ya an idea. Everyone involved in this raid on both sides seemed to have had a lot of fun. <S>
(Image removed from quote.)

That was tons of fun Pipz..plenty of targets for both sides to shoot at!  :aok  We've been doing those sort of raids more regularly and it gets lots of fighter attention. I will be  to let you know next time in game if we are doing one.  :salute


Awesome flying those missions with you Daddkev! Hope you join us next time too.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 12:04:25 PM by DaveJ »
~DaveyJ~
Jokers Jokers


Noseart

Offline Slade

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1846
Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2012, 12:40:04 PM »
Quote
o just forming a big smash n grab "horde" mission is possibly more and quicker success for them than flying to the strats (2 hours?), porking ords and stuff, etc...

For much of the time with people working day jobs I think you are right on Debrody.  Perhaps in weekend (equivalent) playing, playing multi-hours, we'll see more players utilizing the new system possibilities.
-- Flying as X15 --