Author Topic: Organisation – a limited concept?  (Read 5676 times)

Offline Lusche

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Organisation – a limited concept?
« on: September 26, 2012, 02:44:41 PM »


We have the new strats for a month now. And they work, having a big impact on downtimes of field objects and, most importantly, towns. Having enemy towns down for 2h and more instead of only 30 minutes offers a huge advantage especially in the light of the new ability to resupply them.
Similar with ords, maybe THE single key asset in both defense as well as on the offense.


But is it being utilized? In my experience, not really.
Yes, we see a much increased number of strat runs, but that's almost always by enterprising lone buff pilots. There is the occasional buff mission, but usually only for 'fun' (no, that's not a bad thing, but that isn't my point) and often quite ineffective. In both cases, there is a lack of follow up porking runs.
In that context it strikes me that the often called for „organisation“ is almost exclusively used in strictly tactical, base grabbing context. „Let's organise“  simply means: Get as many players as possible and roll some bases. There are some large squads which do only have that as a purpose.

And this is the point that makes me wonder: A relatively small number of players could now really make an impact. Coordinated strikes at key strategic targets combined with some porkage could quite effectively strangle the enemies ability to wage war on a specific front. With comparatively little effort. But it seems to me that it's not even being taken into consideration by the big generals of  AH land.
Don't get me wrong – it's not about those who don't care for country and war anyway, of course they don't do that stuff, and I'm absolutely not saying they should. Actually I'm not even saying anybody should.
I'm simply wondering why those speaking about organisation, teamwork and „the war“ all the time just do not use the big opportunities? Instead, everyone of them seems to embrace BFI – brute force and ignorance. Towns only down for 30 minutes and resupplyable? Get more people in your mission!!!! They speak of teamwork and doing it for your „country“, but totally ignore every action that could give your side a long term advantage but doesn't result in an immediate base capture.

And while I'm at it, that covers the defense as well. Several times I encountered players begging for help in resupplying the strats, calling out not joining as „no team players“ - But the same players never upped to defend the strats in the first place, even when the approaching enemy was called out early enough. Instead, the asked for even more help in resupplying. If you compare the effort necessary to undo damage to a factory with that of stopping a set of Lancs incoming at 13k, one can only shake his head in disbelief...


So why is organisation understood in only such a limited way?
Habit? Strat system still too complex? Not enough „WTFG A95!“?


Or is there actually a body of people out there which IS using the opportunities to fight for „their country“ with cold, analytical efficiency above and beyond the smash&grab?
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Offline Debrody

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2012, 02:52:35 PM »
Look into their mind, Snail. Every human creature wants a quick success, especially when their playing time is limited. So just forming a big smash n grab "horde" mission is possibly more and quicker success for them than flying to the strats (2 hours?), porking ords and stuff, etc...

This is just how i see it.
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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2012, 02:52:41 PM »
wait, so the play pen has gotten too complex for the kids to handle?  :rofl   :rofl   :rofl   :rofl   :rofl
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Offline Wiley

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2012, 03:08:11 PM »
You'd just think there would be a few people who take the long view on taking down the strats, say just before primetime, so their guys have an easier time of it when the hordes start rolling.  Not sure why that doesn't happen.

As for why people resupply versus defending, I think it's because it doesn't happen instantly, particularly if you're going for bombers above 15k.  Setting up for a set of bombers at speed can take 20 minutes or more depending on your plane choice, and that's if you guess right what they're doing.  Few people have the patience for that.

I agree with Debrody, it's just not an immediate enough effect for most.

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Offline zack1234

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2012, 03:18:28 PM »
I have been doing strat runs :old:

Getting home is fun I was attacked by a 262 and lots of other planes it was great, I gave the 262 a good fetling :)

Crhis3 is in charge of Bomber command at present, I am free on Friday evening "real time" not "yanky time" to fly in a combined bomber sortie with escort. :)


Chris3 organized a 410 strat run which was doomed to failure :rofl
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Offline Copprhed

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2012, 03:27:54 PM »
I generally don't haven hours to spend playing this GAME. For those who do, more power to you. It's the reason that I spend more time in the DA than I do in the MA. It's flat out boring as hell to even consider spending even 15 minutes flying from one base to another only to find there's no COMPETITION.
Many people don't seem to remember that games are about competition. One of the greatest things about this game is that it has so many different aspects that allow a great variety of enjoyment for whomever desires them. Quit downing those who don't have the time or the desire to play this GAME the way you think they should, organize a squad with similar interests in it or find people who will work with you. Thanks, and have a nice day!
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2012, 03:33:58 PM »
I generally don't haven hours to spend playing this GAME. For those who do, more power to you. It's the reason that I spend more time in the DA than I do in the MA. It's flat out boring as hell to even consider spending even 15 minutes flying from one base to another only to find there's no COMPETITION.
Many people don't seem to remember that games are about competition. One of the greatest things about this game is that it has so many different aspects that allow a great variety of enjoyment for whomever desires them. Quit downing those who don't have the time or the desire to play this GAME the way you think they should, organize a squad with similar interests in it or find people who will work with you. Thanks, and have a nice day!

I think you have misunderstood me :)
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Offline Pand

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2012, 03:40:29 PM »
I find it entertaining that more often than not, the lone wolf 'fighters' like to suggest how leaders should coordinate rather than getting their own team together and getting it done.

Note: This is not directed at you Snail

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Offline gyrene81

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2012, 03:40:42 PM »
I generally don't haven hours to spend playing this GAME. For those who do, more power to you. It's the reason that I spend more time in the DA than I do in the MA. It's flat out boring as hell to even consider spending even 15 minutes flying from one base to another only to find there's no COMPETITION.
Many people don't seem to remember that games are about competition. One of the greatest things about this game is that it has so many different aspects that allow a great variety of enjoyment for whomever desires them. Quit downing those who don't have the time or the desire to play this GAME the way you think they should, organize a squad with similar interests in it or find people who will work with you. Thanks, and have a nice day!
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Offline Volron

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2012, 03:47:49 PM »
Quote from: hitech
Wow I find it hard to believe it has been almost 38 days since our last path. We should have release another 38 versions by now  :bhead
HiTech
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Offline coombz

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 04:12:44 PM »
The majority (note I don't say all) of the people who focus solely on winning the war mainly apply 'brute force and ignorance' strategies because that is all they are capable of.

That is kind of what defines them.

They don't get any enjoyment from the aerial combat part of the game because they are so bad at it, so instead they get their enjoyment (and sometimes their frothing rage) from winning, or trying to win the war. They don't use any complicated tactics to achieve these aims because it's simply beyond them.

Hordes of bad players banding together in excessively large numbers to try to achieve something has been a constant facet of MMO player vs player gameplay for as long as I've been playing those kinds of games.

As we all know, small squads of better players can and do achieve success using skill and tactics in this game, just as in others. Taking a base with only 4 or 5 pilots, beating a horde using altitude and wing tactics while outnumbered, porking strategic targets to attempt to stall the enemy advance, etc.

I'm sure the strats will become part of those tactics used by certain types of players in the future, but I somehow doubt that the most vocal country loyalists and common horde organisers will do the same.

Their minds can only deal with the big picture in terms like: 'we are winning because everyone is doing what I say!'  or 'We are losing because you guys aren't listening to me/spies'.  :)
« Last Edit: September 26, 2012, 04:21:00 PM by coombz »
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Offline bustr

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 04:29:21 PM »
The only benifit I see from the new resupply model leveraged by the average player is to single handedly stop a base roll by resupplying the town ack with an M3 at the most inopportune moment. Now you really need the VHoard smash and grab tactical method if you don't plan ahead when attacking an airfeild. Hitech seems to have listened to the crys for a more strategic game. If you cannot plan for a single M3 to ruin your day, how can you run a strategic initiative at a whole country?

If you don't get the FH and VH down along with the town and troops running in the first 5 minutes. By the end of the first 10 minutes, if you didn't bother to send VH killers to all the enemy feilds spawning to the feild you are trying to capture. Just when your troops show up and your furball in the grass is getting good. Some one yells M3, M3 near town. Then town ack pops up and screws your pooch while all the defenders rip you a new one.

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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 05:59:42 PM »
The majority (note I don't say all) of the people who focus solely on winning the war mainly apply 'brute force and ignorance' strategies because that is all they are capable of.



^^^^ this, and the biggest reason, because it works.

Why should players change their style of play when what they are doing is working so well? Strats? Who needs them, just roll the base with a horde.

What I think is needed is some new rules, or "carrots" to entice the players away from horde antics and more toward strategic, and tactical play.

here are some "maybes"

1. for every hour that one of the strats are down, every player on that team gets 10 perks. So if the knights keep the bish ammo under 100% for an hour all Knights get 10 perks. If they keep ammo AND fuel down for the same hour, 20 perks for all kinghts and on.

2. win the war means you need the base percentage as well as the dar dead. This will set up a mass mission to hit the HQ for the win, People should defend that.

3. less guys in a dar circle, less percentage needed for  a white flag, more in the dar, the higher the percentage.

HTC could "guide" play away from hordes and more toward organized attacks if they wanted to. By creating a different way to win, they would create more places to battle. Now, can the xbox group handle "battles" or would they all run away to play WOW? 

Offline coombz

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 06:10:51 PM »
you're tripping on your own logic Fugitive, if the majority of players enjoy turning their brains off and playing the simple minded weight of numbers game, why would HTC change anything?

most of their customers are happy it seems. if they make things difficult i imagine they would have unhappy customers.
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: Organisation – a limited concept?
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 07:09:01 PM »
That's what I'm saying. I think it would be easy enough to change game play by adding carrots or rules to bring in a more strategic game, but would they be cutting their own throats doing it?

This game has been heading more and more towards the WOW mentality of press a button 20 times move the stick around a bit and congratulate everyone on killing another "boss".... err base.

To bring it back to a "strategic" game where skill and planning pay off better than brute force.... well some sacrifices would have to be made.